Racial Tensions in Milwaukee? (Rio, King: vacation, job, home)

[43north87west]

Having lived in a number of other cities, I don't find the Milwaukee area particularly more or less segregated or integrated than an area like Chicago. I think that Chicago, with some primarily black suburbs, is considered more integrated for that reason--suburbs with higher minority populations.

That said, check out some other Chicagoland burbs. Why isn't the city of Lake Forest integrated? I lived there for 5 years... not integrated. But Waukegan, just a couple of towns away, is largely black. Why is that?

What about Highland Park? Kenilworth? Barrington Hills? Long Grove? Glenview? Not integrated.

The big thing is, is this a "problem" or merely an observation? Is Milwaukee in violation of a standard or a requirement for metropolitan areas? And if so, what is the standard? Why is this such a frequent topic of discussion? Is this even a problem?

Currently I live in Scottsdale, AZ... part of the Phoenix metro area. Phoenix is a massive city, so it is probably considered "integrated" just because of sheer size. You can be in the middle of the desert with nothing in sight, and be within the city limits. Milwaukee is geographically very small, with a very large suburban area. The population of the city is less than 1/3 of the metropolitan area, maybe it is around 1/4 by this point, but the suburbs are mostly white. That means that the "area" isn't integrated, but if the city encompassed Menomonee Falls and Brookfield (for example) it would probably be considerably more integrated as more white people fell within the city borders. Some of these figures are just a result of geographic boundaries, nothing more.

Also, as unpopular of an opinion as this may be, the black community shoots itself in the foot as often as it helps itself, if not more. There are few well known, good black ambassadors, and they are steamrolled by news footage of crime, always prefaced with "Police on the North Side ..." Couple that with neverending reports about teenage pregnancy in the inner city, high school dropout rates, and whatever other statistics indicate urban blight. So it is no surprise that Nancy Northshore is not doing everything in her power to welcome minorities to Fox Point, Whitefish Bay, Mequon, or wherever. Couple that with economic factors and perhaps some reluctance on the part of more affluent black people, and there it is.

IMO, people in Milwaukee and other cities, are not afraid of integration because of skin color. I would say that's far down on the list. They do, however, have profound concerns about socioeconomic and cultural integration. But the race card is so easily played, that's usually as far as it goes.

[south-to-west]

Originally Posted by 43north87west

Currently I live in Scottsdale, AZ... part of the Phoenix metro area. Phoenix is a massive city, so it is probably considered "integrated" just because of sheer size. You can be in the middle of the desert with nothing in sight, and be within the city limits. Milwaukee is geographically very small, with a very large suburban area. The population of the city is less than 1/3 of the metropolitan area, maybe it is around 1/4 by this point, but the suburbs are mostly white. That means that the "area" isn't integrated, but if the city encompassed Menomonee Falls and Brookfield (for example) it would probably be considerably more integrated as more white people fell within the city borders. Some of these figures are just a result of geographic boundaries, nothing more.

Also, as unpopular of an opinion as this may be, the black community shoots itself in the foot as often as it helps itself, if not more. There are few well known, good black ambassadors, and they are steamrolled by news footage of crime, always prefaced with "Police on the North Side ..." Couple that with neverending reports about teenage pregnancy in the inner city, high school dropout rates, and whatever other statistics indicate urban blight. So it is no surprise that Nancy Northshore is not doing everything in her power to welcome minorities to Fox Point, Whitefish Bay, Mequon, or wherever. Couple that with economic factors and perhaps some reluctance on the part of more affluent black people, and there it is.

IMO, people in Milwaukee and other cities, are not afraid of integration because of skin color. I would say that's far down on the list. They do, however, have profound concerns about socioeconomic and cultural integration. But the race card is so easily played, that's usually as far as it goes.

I have to call "bullcrap" on that argument. I am a Milwaukee native, black, and I currently live in Atlanta. Although this city is in the Deep South and has its fair share of racial problems, it is more integrated than Milwaukee. Even the suburbs of Atlanta are way more integrated than the suburbs of Milwaukee. I know because I was raised in Mequon, and my family was one of the very few black families that lived there. And let's not even talk about the rest of the North Shore suburbs, as well as Waukesha County. I'm not slamming white suburbanites in Milwaukee at all, but don't try to hide the truth. I think that it stems from the dismal economic situtation of the black community in Milwaukee, blacks not feeling welcome at all in the suburbs of Milwaukee, and the "black brain drain" that Wisconsin is suffering from as a result of an overwhelming portion of young black middle class professionals leaving the state for major cities in the South and elsewhere because of more opportunities.

Also, what the hell are "black ambassadors"? Why should I have to be an "ambassador" in my own country? Anything that's negative or controversial will be shown on the news and in the media because controversy and scandal make for good ratings. Yeah, a lot of whites don't like Jesse Jackson. But if, according to your argument, whites make their negative assumptions about blacks based on Jackson, Sharpton, or Farrakhan; then why can't they make positive assumptions about blacks with figures such as Condoleeza Rice, Colin Powel, and Oprah Winfrey?

Are there deplorable conditions in many impoverished black neighborhoods? Yes! But dammit, as a black male I refuse to answer or apologize for someone else's crime just because we share the same skin color.

People in general--not just whites, but ALL PEOPLE--need to quit watching so much damn TV and actually get out in the world and meet people of different backgrounds.

[Miss_Christmas]

I have to call "bullcrap" on that argument. I am a Milwaukee native, black, and I currently live in Atlanta. Although this city is in the Deep South and has its fair share of racial problems, it is more integrated than Milwaukee. Even the suburbs of Atlanta are way more integrated than the suburbs of Milwaukee. I know because I was raised in Mequon, and my family was one of the very few black families that lived there. And let's not even talk about the rest of the North Shore suburbs, as well as Waukesha County. I'm not slamming white suburbanites in Milwaukee at all, but don't try to hide the truth. I think that it stems from the dismal economic situtation of the black community in Milwaukee, blacks not feeling welcome at all in the suburbs of Milwaukee, and the "black brain drain" that Wisconsin is suffering from as a result of an overwhelming portion of young black middle class professionals leaving the state for major cities in the South and elsewhere because of more opportunities.

I have to agree with you 110% on this!! I too am a Milwaukee Native, now in Atlanta. I was born there & spent most part of my childhood & adulthood there. As a black college educated woman, I found that the black middle class does not exist there...if it does it is very small. I am making almost twice as much money here in Atlanta, then I did when I was working in Milwaukee (& that was only 4 yrs ago). I was there last year for a visit & I felt very out of place in my own hometown. I think it's because here, there are so many more opportunities for middle class blacks to make a really good living here. This is the deep south, but I have NEVER experienced the racism down here that I did there. I never felt like I was "home" there, I always felt like a visitor. Here, I can go anywhere in the metro area & not feel out of place at all. No one takes a second look at me when I venture into a nice restaurant & the clerks don't follow me around the store like I'm going to steal something when I go to the mall. That's why the black middle class is leaving Milwaukee, there's no opportunites for growth there. EVERY one of my friends that live there now are making arrangements to move out of the state of Wisconsin period, as soon as they can. It's a simple formula: no decent paying jobs = no money = poverty = people leaving the state period.

Milwaukee used to be a big manufacturing city, but according to jsonline, this is what happened: (read the entire article to get the point. JS Online: 4 decades later, poverty persists

It's well known that the loss of manufacturing jobs throughout the region has contributed to unemployment and hit the African-American population hard.

From 1963 to 2002, manufacturing jobs in the city decreased by 70%, according to a report by UWM economist Levine.

Less explored: the growth of manufacturing jobs in Waukesha, Washington and Ozaukee counties.

Manufacturing jobs in these outlying counties increased 187% in the same period, Levine's report showed. But most of those employees are white.

[Miss_Christmas]

By the way, I am in no way saying that Atlanta is perfect, no city in the world is, but when a city like Milwaukee continues to lose the middle class of any race to other cities with better opportunities, the economy of that city is bound to suffer.

Also another issue that I have noticed (at least amongst the neighborhood(s) on the north side that I grew up in), is that when hard working decent black people from there attend a 2 or 4 yr college, they usually leave the city within 5 years of graduating for better paying jobs out of state. Or they attend school in another state & don't move back there. This is a great talent sector that Milwaukee is losing out on almost daily, and should do a better job of trying to keep that kind of talent there.....because that just may be a big part of the future of Milwaukee's middle class.

[pirate_lafitte]

It all depends on what view you are coming from. My father moved to Atlanta in either January or February 1996(before the Olympics) to get work as an engineer. He had to leave the state multiple times(mainly to Texas) to find work after his layoff in 1999. He isn't working in Atlanta now. His experience wasn't that good either(and he once worked in Milwaukee). I have black friends coming from places like Ohio and California who hate it in Atlanta(they are mainly college students). I have a friend from the Bay Area of California who lives in metro Atlanta and he is trying to move back to California. I don't blame him.
I'm not putting Milwaukee on a pedestal, but I think that in many ways Atlanta can be overrated(and this is my experience).

[Miss_Christmas]

Originally Posted by pirate_lafitte

It all depends on what view you are coming from. My father moved to Atlanta in either January or February 1996(before the Olympics) to get work as an engineer. He had to leave the state multiple times(mainly to Texas) to find work after his layoff in 1999. He isn't working in Atlanta now. His experience wasn't that good either(and he once worked in Milwaukee). I have black friends coming from places like Ohio and California who hate it in Atlanta(they are mainly college students). I have a friend from the Bay Area of California who lives in metro Atlanta and he is trying to move back to California. I don't blame him.
I'm not putting Milwaukee on a pedestal, but I think that in many ways Atlanta can be overrated(and this is my experience).

This is true, but everyone has different experiences with it. The ATL area is not for everyone, I never said it was. All I can say is that the ppl that I know personally have had positive experiences with living here.

You have to move to where you feel comfortable and happy no matter what city it is, & so far I'm happier living here than I ever was in Milwaukee. Who knows, I could have a different view later on & move somewhere else again in the future, but I can definately say I will NOT live in Milwaukee ever again if I can help it. It's not for me. As a matter of fact I probably won't ever move anywhere up north (I've always hated the snow & freezing temps in the winter lol!) It would have to be a situation where I got a dream job offer there that I flat out could not refuse, but I do not see that happening. But as a previous poster mentioned comparing the ATL metro to the Milwaukee metro, is like comparing an apple to a watermelon. ATL metro (a little over 5 million ppl as of a couple months ago) is over twice the size of Milwaukee metro (around 1.5 million ppl), of course there's going to be a significant difference in everything.

[43north87west]

Originally Posted by south-to-west

I have to call "bullcrap" on that argument. I am a Milwaukee native, black, and I currently live in Atlanta. Although this city is in the Deep South and has its fair share of racial problems, it is more integrated than Milwaukee. Even the suburbs of Atlanta are way more integrated than the suburbs of Milwaukee. I know because I was raised in Mequon, and my family was one of the very few black families that lived there. And let's not even talk about the rest of the North Shore suburbs, as well as Waukesha County. I'm not slamming white suburbanites in Milwaukee at all, but don't try to hide the truth. I think that it stems from the dismal economic situtation of the black community in Milwaukee, blacks not feeling welcome at all in the suburbs of Milwaukee, and the "black brain drain" that Wisconsin is suffering from as a result of an overwhelming portion of young black middle class professionals leaving the state for major cities in the South and elsewhere because of more opportunities.

Also, what the hell are "black ambassadors"? Why should I have to be an "ambassador" in my own country? Anything that's negative or controversial will be shown on the news and in the media because controversy and scandal make for good ratings. Yeah, a lot of whites don't like Jesse Jackson. But if, according to your argument, whites make their negative assumptions about blacks based on Jackson, Sharpton, or Farrakhan; then why can't they make positive assumptions about blacks with figures such as Condoleeza Rice, Colin Powel, and Oprah Winfrey?

Are there deplorable conditions in many impoverished black neighborhoods? Yes! But dammit, as a black male I refuse to answer or apologize for someone else's crime just because we share the same skin color.

People in general--not just whites, but ALL PEOPLE--need to quit watching so much damn TV and actually get out in the world and meet people of different backgrounds.

Use the term "role model" or "respectable person" if you choose. I'm a respected guy in my field and in the community, and I didn't TRY to be respected, it just happened as a byproduct of being an upstanding guy. I can only assume that occurs in any society, where a person is an upstanding individual, so replace "ambassador" with some other term that defines a respectable person. Also, I don't feel guilty about making observations based on living in 3 City of Milwaukee homes--plus three suburbs-- not to mention three other major metro areas and cities outside of Wisconsin (Chicago, Washington DC, and Phoenix) and 3 Milwaukee suburbs, Fox Point, Brookfield, and Shorewood. I worked on the northwest side for 3 years and watched the decline of a whole neighborhood. I sure didn't cause it. That is the problem I have with a discussion like this. It starts with the premise that there is a problem, which varies on who you talk to. But it doesn't identify why the problem IS a problem, or what the causal factor is, because we're beating around the bush of political correctness. Since the causal factor is NOT me, and has not been caused by me, and I am obviously not aware of the cause, I am asking perfectly legitimate questions, for which I don't have answers... that's why I asked them. Not to attract the ire of other participants, but to get an actual, realistic, logical answer (which I haven't).

I wonder if someone else who has lived in at least as many different types of areas could weigh in on what I am missing.

Also you can call my opinion bull... whatever, but it is my opinion and it is drawn on legitimate observations of an educated, successful leader and business person, as well as someone who has invested fifteen consecutive years working with inner city youth in rotten areas. That includes at risk youth and people with different disabilities.

Did you drive carloads of kids home to the ghetto from social programs (many times) when their county-funded bus didn't show? Your own time, your car, your gas? Kids who are filthy from a whole day running around a park and splashing in Lake Michigan? These kids weren't relying on a bus because their parents had cars, their parents barely had a place to live.

Did your company, with your assistance and leadership, sponsor at-risk teens for legitimate employment, for decent pay? Good employment, not unskilled labor. Does your company, with your direct assistance, sponsor and train these people at great expense and effort? Do you make an effort to contribute to the at-risk and underprivileged? Do you and your colleagues do this now? I'm not talking about the once a year rah-rah, help out a poor kid for two hours outing. I'm talking about consistent, reliable participation and sponsorship with firm commitment to this type of program. I spent fifteen years working for companies that sustained outreach programs for at risk kids and teens, plus work programs as outlined above.

So, call my opinion whatever you choose to call it, I have done what I can to further others' lives, not create divisions. I'm glad I have, along the way I have come up with a lot of questions and observations about life and people. While my opinions and observations may not be what you'd like to hear, they are a product of significant experience.

[south-to-west]

Miss Christmas,

Cheers.

43north87west,

That's fine if you have an opinion. As you noticed, I veered from political correctness also and gave you my unabashed opinion. I also gave you a logical explanation in the first paragraph of my post yesterday morning...

"I think that it stems from the dismal economic situtation of the black community in Milwaukee, blacks not feeling welcome at all in the suburbs of Milwaukee, and the "black brain drain" that Wisconsin is suffering from as a result of an overwhelming portion of young black middle class professionals leaving the state for major cities in the South and elsewhere because of more opportunities."

My hats off to you for your community service. Before living in Mequon during my high school years, my family lived on the northwest side. I also was a Chapter 220 student in Whitefish Bay and South Milwaukee before; and I spent few years of my early elementary schooling in the MPS system, so my experience of the different areas of the Milwaukee metro area is pretty in depth.

Nobody is accusing you of causing the problem. But if you're going to ask the hard questions, expect upfront and honest answers.

[IWANTOUTnow]

I know that I am new to this thread.

I am a 22 year old black female native to Milwaukee Wisconsin... I need to leave as soon as possible... For me Milwaukee is a horrible place to live.

I grew up in the inner city for the first 5 or 6 years and then my mother started to succeed raising 3 children on her own and we moved to a middle class neighborhood where I have been since.

I went to Samuel Morse one of the best junior high schools, I went to Riverside (used to be) one of the best high schools and I went on to attend UWM a great university. I succeeded in everything and yet I feel stuck.

I feel like my air supply is running low being here. Yes, there are racial tensions and yes it is a topic that does not need to be ignored.

Okay yes when you turn on the news you see a lot of murders and other crimes going on in the inner city, and although it does not justify it, most of them are crimes of survival.

Being young and black in Milwaukee is like a death sentence. No there are not a lot of blacks in suburbia here, think about it would you want to live somewhere where you are onstantly treated like a suspect.

I have a friend that lives in Franklin, I hate leaving her house and have all eyes on me trying to figure out what this little black girl from the hood is doing in their area.

Newsflash.... If I can afford it I should be able to live there.... I dont need to go into a jewelry store in brookfield and ask to try a piece on and have them tell me how much it costs... If I wanted to know that I would have asked... I don't need to drive through shorewood and be pulled over for something simple like not displaying a front plate when we all know the real reasons... Black girl, nice car, nice neighborhood, something doesn't register... Its sad and you may want to keep on your rose colored glasses, but its true.

Its sad and its true that while in college there were 3 to 4 blacks in each class.... but you only see 3 to 4 white people in each dorm at our correctional facilities.

Its sad that when I enter an establishment ready to spemnd my money that I earn I am made to feel uncomfortable so I leave...

Its sad that I have so many accomplishments, talents, and dreams but where I am in my current position is where I will remain because of the lack of opportunity.... for growth and development here.

I am 22 years old I did not get the chance to complete college because although my mother earns nice money she is not in the position where she can put me through 4 years of schooling and buy me a brand new beemer upon completion.... I had to work a part time job and go to school as I am sure many people do... but then that asn't enough....

It was either step up and seek higher wages or continue to try to struggle through school earning grades way lower than what I'm used to because I'm too worried about how I'm going to continue to pay to be there...

I know there are opportunities out there to have schooling paid for, but unfortunately I was just another black face that faded into the background... nobody showed me the road to go down.... The crazy part is I know that had I been enrolled in an HBCU and was keeping my grades up there is no way the advisors would have let me slip through the cracks because of financial reasons... they would have helped...

Now I don't blame the "man" for anything... I do however blame society for turning its back on iuts community so often... Its not always just black people that have to go through this struggle either... Once upon a time our sweet land of liberty wouldnt allow any man to vote who was not rich regardless of if he was white...

I stumbled upon this discussion trying to research cities in Tennessee so that I can relocate. I am educated, have tons of potential, successful (22, no kids, HS Diploma, own place, 33,000 a year income) but thats all I can see happening here. I don't see myself going anywhere beyond that and I'm sorry but I'm not satisfied.

Think about it though and I'm done after this.... Black people, negroes is what we were once labeled we have always been strong and we have always fought against all odds.... but when the odds are stacked against you what will you do... I know I was taught you get out of that situation the best way you can... Survival of the fittest.... We came over on boats shackeled together in the WORST conditions and survived it. Many died but many more survived it... we were then beat and raped and what did we do we sang and danced and kept on pushing.... we were then denied access to the finer things (sound familiar) and beaten some more, bit by dogs, hosed down, strung up by our necks... we had our leaders assassinated in cold blood... but we still here! We have been treated like dirt, animals, inferiors, and its sad to say but so much of this still goes on today right here in milwaukee...

I may not be hung up by a tree or spit on but the icy glares the frightened looks when I'm with a large group, the phrase "I have a lot of black friends" and so much more are evidence that yes there are racial tensions as I'm sure there are everywhere... but I have got to get out NOW!!!

[IWANTOUTnow]

Originally Posted by 43north87west

Use the term "role model" or "respectable person" if you choose. I'm a respected guy in my field and in the community, and I didn't TRY to be respected, it just happened as a byproduct of being an upstanding guy. I can only assume that occurs in any society, where a person is an upstanding individual, so replace "ambassador" with some other term that defines a respectable person. Also, I don't feel guilty about making observations based on living in 3 City of Milwaukee homes--plus three suburbs-- not to mention three other major metro areas and cities outside of Wisconsin (Chicago, Washington DC, and Phoenix) and 3 Milwaukee suburbs, Fox Point, Brookfield, and Shorewood. I worked on the northwest side for 3 years and watched the decline of a whole neighborhood. I sure didn't cause it. That is the problem I have with a discussion like this. It starts with the premise that there is a problem, which varies on who you talk to. But it doesn't identify why the problem IS a problem, or what the causal factor is, because we're beating around the bush of political correctness. Since the causal factor is NOT me, and has not been caused by me, and I am obviously not aware of the cause, I am asking perfectly legitimate questions, for which I don't have answers... that's why I asked them. Not to attract the ire of other participants, but to get an actual, realistic, logical answer (which I haven't).

I wonder if someone else who has lived in at least as many different types of areas could weigh in on what I am missing.

Also you can call my opinion bull... whatever, but it is my opinion and it is drawn on legitimate observations of an educated, successful leader and business person, as well as someone who has invested fifteen consecutive years working with inner city youth in rotten areas. That includes at risk youth and people with different disabilities.

Did you drive carloads of kids home to the ghetto from social programs (many times) when their county-funded bus didn't show? Your own time, your car, your gas? Kids who are filthy from a whole day running around a park and splashing in Lake Michigan? These kids weren't relying on a bus because their parents had cars, their parents barely had a place to live.

Did your company, with your assistance and leadership, sponsor at-risk teens for legitimate employment, for decent pay? Good employment, not unskilled labor. Does your company, with your direct assistance, sponsor and train these people at great expense and effort? Do you make an effort to contribute to the at-risk and underprivileged? Do you and your colleagues do this now? I'm not talking about the once a year rah-rah, help out a poor kid for two hours outing. I'm talking about consistent, reliable participation and sponsorship with firm commitment to this type of program. I spent fifteen years working for companies that sustained outreach programs for at risk kids and teens, plus work programs as outlined above.

So, call my opinion whatever you choose to call it, I have done what I can to further others' lives, not create divisions. I'm glad I have, along the way I have come up with a lot of questions and observations about life and people. While my opinions and observations may not be what you'd like to hear, they are a product of significant experience.

WOW...... I CANNOT BELIEVE IT I KNOW I CAME IN ON THE END OF THE CONVO AND ALL BUT SIR EVERYTHING I JUST READ PISSED ME OFF. THIS ONE IS COMING FROM THE GIRL THAT COULD HAVE EASILY BEEN THE KID PLAYING IN THE LAKE JUMPING IN YOUR RIDE TO GO HOME...

I MUST HAVE NOT READ IT ALL, BUT IT SOUNDS LIKE YOU WANT AN APPLAUSE OR SOMETHING... OKAY SO YOU DID A COUPLE OF "GOOD DEEDS" IN THE "GHETTO" BUT SIR TRY LIVING IT EVERYDAY ALL DAY NOT DROPPING THEM OFF AT HOME AND GOING HOME TO TELL YOUR WIFE AND KIDS HOW SAD IT WAS BUT ACTUALLY LIVING IT.... YOU DONT HAVE A CLUE... ITS A VERY NOBLE THING YOUTH WORK IS PERIOD ESPECIALLY WHEN YOU CAN GAIN SOME CONTROL OVER OFTEN ROWDY INNER CITY KIDS.... BUT IF YOU CANT COUNT OFF AND NAME EVERYTHING YOU HAVE DONE.... YOU HAVEN'T DONE NEARLY ENOUGH.... I WON'T BRAG OR BOAST ON ANYTHING I HAVE DONE BUT I WILL SAY THIS I HAVE DONE YOUTH WORK IN MY HOOD MY NEIGHBORHOODS SINCE I WAS 15 MENTORING NINE YEAR OLDS TEACHING THEM THE IMPORTANCE OF ABSTAINING FROM NEGATIVE ACTIVITIES... BUT I COULD NEVER REMEMBER EVERY SINGLE ACT OF KINDNESS. YES THERE ARE UNFORGETTABLE MOMENTS BUT YOU WEREN'T IN THE TRENCHES... YOU WENT HOME... NO KIDS KNOCKING ON YOUR DOOR AFTER SCHOOL LOOKING FOR FOOD... NOT TO MENTION WORKING WITH SHORT TEMPERED TEENAGE BOYS THAT THREATEN YOU BECAUSE THEY KNOW WHERE YOU LIVE BUT YOU KEEP COMING BACK AND SHOW THEM THE ATTENTION THEY NEED... YOU GET TO GO HOME AT NIGHT.... YOU DONT SEE IT ALL DAY LONG... ALL I CAN SAY IS WOW.... GRANTED I DONT KNOW YOU BUT I CAN TELL THAT EITHER YOU ARENT REALLY A HUMBLE PERSON HAVING TO RUN OFF YOUR LIST OF ACCOMPLISHMENTS OR YOU DONT REALLY HAVE A CLUE... YOU DONT HAVE A CLUE...

YOU TOOK THEM HOME BUT DID YOU MAKE SURE THEY HAD BREAKFAST THE NEXT MORNING SO THEY COULD CONCENTRATE IN SCHOOL

DO YOU KNOW HOW HARD IT IS TO CONCENTRATE ON READING AND WRITING WHEN YOU HAVENT EATEN ANYTHING... I DO