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Old 07-04-2010, 01:17 AM
 
Location: Chicago
36,076 posts, read 55,982,669 times
Reputation: 24744
Quote:
Originally Posted by Solas View Post
Physically, Milwaukee looks similar to Pittsburgh or Baltimore.
No, it doesn't. These are two quintessentially East Coast cities architecturally speaking with lots of rowhouses and small workers cottages packed together so tightly (at least in neighborhoods that aren't half-abandoned) that they literally have no yards and the "streets," such as they are, are literally alleys. Plus in the case of Pittsburgh the city is laid out around three major rivers and streets winding all over the place in no coherent pattern amongst and around a bunch of hills and valleys among the Appalachian foothills that create distinct neighborhoods physically separated from each other; as opposed to Milwaukee with its board-flat topography and near-perfect grid where neighborhoods seamlessly blend from one to the other.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Solas View Post
But IIRC, the only city anywhere with a greater disparity in income between city residents and suburbanites than Milwaukee is St. Louis.

Plus I've known plenty of St. Lousians my age who complain about the older residents who can't get over the fact that the city has evolved past beer, bowling and baseball and seem to think anything that deviates from the St. Louis they knew as a kid somehow isn't the "real" St. Louis. All of which would sound pretty familiar to someone coming from Milwaukee.
The old guard complaining about the new order is a standard feature of distressed and/or recovering Midwest and Northeast cities once steeped in union-dominated trades, from Rochester to Rock Island. You'll even find them in not-so-distressed cities except they're drowned out by the new-order folks who are too busy revitalizing the city to listen to a bunch of Archie Bunkers lamenting that we could use a man like Herbert Hoover again.

Last edited by Drover; 07-04-2010 at 01:25 AM..
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Old 07-05-2010, 07:35 PM
 
180 posts, read 389,649 times
Reputation: 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drover View Post
No, it doesn't. These are two quintessentially East Coast cities architecturally speaking with lots of rowhouses and small workers cottages packed together so tightly (at least in neighborhoods that aren't half-abandoned) that they literally have no yards and the "streets," such as they are, are literally alleys. Plus in the case of Pittsburgh the city is laid out around three major rivers and streets winding all over the place in no coherent pattern amongst and around a bunch of hills and valleys among the Appalachian foothills that create distinct neighborhoods physically separated from each other; as opposed to Milwaukee with its board-flat topography and near-perfect grid where neighborhoods seamlessly blend from one to the other.
I think you misunderstood what I meant.. you mean to tell me this or this wouldn't fit in here (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/4/4b/PNCParkSkyline.jpg - broken link)?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Drover View Post
The old guard complaining about the new order is a standard feature of distressed and/or recovering Midwest and Northeast cities once steeped in union-dominated trades, from Rochester to Rock Island. You'll even find them in not-so-distressed cities except they're drowned out by the new-order folks who are too busy revitalizing the city to listen to a bunch of Archie Bunkers lamenting that we could use a man like Herbert Hoover again.
I think in Milwaukee's case (as well as St. Louis' from what I observed), most of the city has revitalized itself. Aside from downtown, the far southside and certain parts of the northside, pretty much the entire city has changed significantly in the past decade. But because the Archie Bunkers who have deathgrips on their leadership positions and refuse to embrace the change and promote the city as such, Milwaukee doesn't see a lot of the benefits that similar "urban renewal" has roped into other cities (see: Austin and Portland for examples).
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Old 07-05-2010, 08:13 PM
 
Location: Chicago, IL
1,847 posts, read 2,652,279 times
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Drover is correct. Milwaukee and Pittsburgh do not look alike. Yeah, you can find some buildings downtown that are similar but as a whole these two cities look very different.

Milwaukee: Great Lake, fairly flat, wood framed houses, midwest street grid.

Pittsburgh: Rivers, very hilly, brick row houses, narrow streets, no consistent street grid.

The city most like Milwaukee is Cleveland. They are both on a Great Lake and have very similar housing stock. Cleveland has some more narrow streets though and does not really have that consistent Midwest street grid. Buffalo is much the same.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenozia View Post
Cleveland? I'd say it's in between Cleveland and Columbus. Milwaukee is far cleaner, not nearly as run down and has more culture than Cleveland; essentially swap out some of the excessive bad traits of Cleveland with the positives of Columbus, add a few of the characteristics of the lake front/life of Chicago a couple brats and you've got Milwaukee.
It's Cleveland for sure. I will say that Milwaukee's inner city is a bit cleaner because you will find some better neighborhoods closer to the downtown than in Cleveland. Also, Milwaukee has a much better lakefront closer to the downtown. Comparing the metro areas as a whole, Milwaukee may be doing marginally better than Cleveland, but it does not seem like there is a very big gap to me.

As far as cultural amenities go you are off base there. Cleveland outdoes Milwaukee in that respect, and it seems pretty clear to me. The Cleveland metro is a bit larger and has amenities that are reflective of such.

Columbus does not feel or look very much like Milwaukee. I would take either Milwaukee or Cleveland over Columbus anyway.
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Old 07-08-2010, 07:14 PM
 
26,673 posts, read 21,836,990 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 5Lakes View Post
Drover is correct. Milwaukee and Pittsburgh do not look alike. Yeah, you can find some buildings downtown that are similar but as a whole these two cities look very different.

Milwaukee: Great Lake, fairly flat, wood framed houses, midwest street grid.

Pittsburgh: Rivers, very hilly, brick row houses, narrow streets, no consistent street grid.

The city most like Milwaukee is Cleveland. They are both on a Great Lake and have very similar housing stock. Cleveland has some more narrow streets though and does not really have that consistent Midwest street grid. Buffalo is much the same.



It's Cleveland for sure. I will say that Milwaukee's inner city is a bit cleaner because you will find some better neighborhoods closer to the downtown than in Cleveland. Also, Milwaukee has a much better lakefront closer to the downtown. Comparing the metro areas as a whole, Milwaukee may be doing marginally better than Cleveland, but it does not seem like there is a very big gap to me.

As far as cultural amenities go you are off base there. Cleveland outdoes Milwaukee in that respect, and it seems pretty clear to me. The Cleveland metro is a bit larger and has amenities that are reflective of such.

Columbus does not feel or look very much like Milwaukee. I would take either Milwaukee or Cleveland over Columbus anyway.
Milwaukee would have some similarities to Cleveland.
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Old 07-08-2010, 08:12 PM
 
5,246 posts, read 4,351,664 times
Reputation: 4584
Milwaukee, physically, has something in common with Chicago and Cleveland. To a much lesser extent, Pittsburgh.

Milwaukee, with its brick bungalows and old victorians, looks nothing like the rundown rowhouse neighborhoods of Baltimore, and it should be thankful that it doesn't.
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Old 07-14-2010, 08:06 PM
 
507 posts, read 474,450 times
Reputation: 253
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drover View Post
No, it doesn't. These are two quintessentially East Coast cities architecturally speaking with lots of rowhouses and small workers cottages packed together so tightly (at least in neighborhoods that aren't half-abandoned) that they literally have no yards and the "streets," such as they are, are literally alleys. Plus in the case of Pittsburgh the city is laid out around three major rivers and streets winding all over the place in no coherent pattern amongst and around a bunch of hills and valleys among the Appalachian foothills that create distinct neighborhoods physically separated from each other; as opposed to Milwaukee with its board-flat topography and near-perfect grid where neighborhoods seamlessly blend from one to the other.
The old guard complaining about the new order is a standard feature of distressed and/or recovering Midwest and Northeast cities once steeped in union-dominated trades, from Rochester to Rock Island. You'll even find them in not-so-distressed cities except they're drowned out by the new-order folks who are too busy revitalizing the city to listen to a bunch of Archie Bunkers lamenting that we could use a man like Herbert Hoover again.

That would be FDR and if you think any former industrial city will be "revitalized" by silly yuppies thinking they are Gods gift, God themselves really, you need to lay off the Wall Street cool-aid you've been drinking by the gallon.
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Old 07-14-2010, 09:06 PM
 
5,246 posts, read 4,351,664 times
Reputation: 4584
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigCur View Post
That would be FDR and if you think any former industrial city will be "revitalized" by silly yuppies thinking they are Gods gift, God themselves really, you need to lay off the Wall Street cool-aid you've been drinking by the gallon.
No, that would be "Hoover"; apparently, you've never watched "All in the Family", or you weren't old enough to. You also apparently don't understand the irony in which Archie Bunker, a working stiff, SHOULD have been FDR's biggest backer, but instead he preferred Herbert Hoover, a big backer of Wall Street. Archie was an uneducated fool, which is why the laughter was directed at him.

You should be happy that anyone, Yuppie or not, would be taking an interest in rebuilding a stagnant city like Gary, IN, or Rockford, IL. If a declining city's fortunes were left up to people like you, nothing positive would ever get done.
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Old 07-14-2010, 10:08 PM
 
Location: Chicago
36,076 posts, read 55,982,669 times
Reputation: 24744
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigCur View Post
That would be FDR and if you think any former industrial city will be "revitalized" by silly yuppies thinking they are Gods gift, God themselves really, you need to lay off the Wall Street cool-aid you've been drinking by the gallon.
Shaddap
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Old 07-15-2010, 04:34 PM
 
507 posts, read 474,450 times
Reputation: 253
Quote:
Originally Posted by MassVt View Post
No, that would be "Hoover"; apparently, you've never watched "All in the Family", or you weren't old enough to. You also apparently don't understand the irony in which Archie Bunker, a working stiff, SHOULD have been FDR's biggest backer, but instead he preferred Herbert Hoover, a big backer of Wall Street. Archie was an uneducated fool, which is why the laughter was directed at him.

You should be happy that anyone, Yuppie or not, would be taking an interest in rebuilding a stagnant city like Gary, IN, or Rockford, IL. If a declining city's fortunes were left up to people like you, nothing positive would ever get done.

I fully understand that and everything else you say, ALL of which is uneducated BS.
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