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Old 12-29-2008, 06:09 PM
 
Location: um....guess
10,483 posts, read 9,124,347 times
Reputation: 1780
Quote:
Originally Posted by jjacobeclark View Post
All of those things sound an awful lot like Milwaukee. We have the Midwest Airlines Center, we have the Historic Third Ward and Walker's Point, we have Miller Park, and we have the Riverwalk downtown. All we seem to be missing is light rail.
Don't forget, Milwaukee has been vomiting new condos left & right too. I say any form of efficient mass transit is definitely a good thing. Once that goes into effect & people realize they can get to places quicker w/out having to use their car, it'll catch on real quick.
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Old 12-30-2008, 07:29 PM
 
Location: Milwaukee, WI
603 posts, read 1,389,224 times
Reputation: 254
I agree, I don't think people would use it enough to make it worth the $$$. As much as I love the rail systems in Chicago, D.C., NYC, London, Paris, Milwaukee is just not a big enough city where the benefit of rail would outweigh the convenience of driving a car. Milwaukee has almost no traffic problems, even at rush hour. If you want to see a failed light rail system, go to Detroit and watch the empty People Mover ride around the city.
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Old 01-04-2009, 01:25 AM
 
86 posts, read 195,018 times
Reputation: 53
As much a proponent as I am of rail transit, it just doesn't make sense, financially or otherwise, for Milwaukee. Local elected officials are obviously for the most part are against it.. regional taxing authority is a nonstarter. There is not enough leeway in the tax base to pay for it. (Or affluence for that matter... makes debt financing highly problematic.) And of course Milwaukee is car culture like most midwestern cities. (Chicago being the obvious exception-- having the population, and parking/traffic disincentives, to support rail.)

Rail should be used sparingly because of the extreme cost per mile. It really only makes sense for alleviating freeways that are CONSISTENTLY jammed, in a PREDICTABLE inbound/outbound pattern. 94 is the obvious candidate. But try telling that to Waukesha county residents, LOL. Talk about a nonstarter.
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Old 01-04-2009, 12:06 PM
Status: "Mequon, WI" (set 15 days ago)
 
Location: Mequon, WI
6,740 posts, read 11,121,127 times
Reputation: 2910
If Milwaukee County had light rail, would you use it?-busj1052108.jpg

How about this sleek new bus? is that sexy enough for you to ride?

I believe we need a 7 county RTA so you can easily transfer buses/trains with transferring between 6 different city bus systems just to get to Kenosha. It's stupid to have 6 different county transit systems that only cover their county when this is a metro area and people travel through multiple counties to get where they are going. It would be nice to hop on a bus in downtown Waukesha and get off at UWM or downtown without transferring 3 time paying more money each time you transfer. In the Milwaukee area we have, Badger Bus, Wisconsin Coach Lines, MCTS, Waukesha Transit, Racine Transit, Coach USA, Lamers, Jefferson Lines.

Why not just have one company that runs buses and freeway fliers to all 7 counties instead of 9 different companies. This is what's really wrong with Milwaukee area transit.
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Old 01-04-2009, 12:14 PM
Status: "Mequon, WI" (set 15 days ago)
 
Location: Mequon, WI
6,740 posts, read 11,121,127 times
Reputation: 2910
Default This is what Milwaukee freeways would have been

If Milwaukee County had light rail, would you use it?-milwfrwys_map.jpg

Thanks to the socialists this is a picture of what the freeways were supposed to be but they axed half of the plans for freeways.
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Old 01-04-2009, 01:14 PM
 
Location: Arizona & Wisconsin
4,816 posts, read 5,478,127 times
Reputation: 6188
Quote:
Originally Posted by Milwaukee City View Post
Attachment 33606

Thanks to the socialists this is a picture of what the freeways were supposed to be but they axed half of the plans for freeways.
I think that large parts of the northwest side were effectively blighted ahead of time, by not having a reasonably quick transportation alternative to areas with a lot of employment. Highway 41/145 heads too far west to be a quick connection to large parts of the city and near suburbs on the north. There was really no good way to get from the northwest side to downtown or to other areas, without taking a mixture of short, chopped-off freeways, or slow moving surface streets. Also this meant that bus routes had to be planned along those same routes, making it even slower and less likely to attract much of anything.

Not only was the 41/145 connection (the Stadium Freeway) scrapped, no suitable northern east-west highway exists, as it does with 894 on the south side. I don't understand how a freeway could be built at both ends, but never connected in the middle, but it happened.
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Old 01-04-2009, 02:27 PM
Status: "Mequon, WI" (set 15 days ago)
 
Location: Mequon, WI
6,740 posts, read 11,121,127 times
Reputation: 2910
Quote:
I don't understand how a freeway could be built at both ends, but never connected in the middle, but it happened.
HA LOL very funny!!! only in Milwaukee, leadership here hasn't changed much from the era of streets and bridges not lining up straight(ie. kilbourn v Juneau).
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Old 01-04-2009, 07:28 PM
 
Location: Chicago
35,630 posts, read 53,228,923 times
Reputation: 24002
Quote:
Originally Posted by 43north87west View Post
I don't understand how a freeway could be built at both ends, but never connected in the middle, but it happened.
Here in Chicago we have the opposite problem: a freeway that was finished in the middle but never connected to either. It's called the Elgin-O'Hare Expressway, and it goes to neither.
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Old 01-04-2009, 08:15 PM
Status: "Mequon, WI" (set 15 days ago)
 
Location: Mequon, WI
6,740 posts, read 11,121,127 times
Reputation: 2910
17 years later, transit impasse drags on - JSOnline
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Old 01-09-2009, 05:07 PM
 
Location: Prepperland
7,740 posts, read 3,898,585 times
Reputation: 3168
According to the laws of Physics, steel wheel on steel rail has 1/7 the rolling resistance of rubber tire on pavement. Electrified rail mass transit is the most energy efficient and frugal land transport system in the world. Before the rise of "cheap and plentiful oil", in the USA, economics favored electrified urban rail service. It was noted that one could ride local electric streetcars and interurbans from Maine to the Rockies and never need to ride on a mainline rail road (Steam powered, before Diesel - Electric locomotives).

The United States once built 500 electric streetcar systems in less than 20 years (1890-1910). Most cities and towns of 25,000 or more got a non-oil electrical transportation system. The US did this with a population of less than one-third of today's, approximately 3% of today's GNP, and relatively primitive technology.

America's lead in electric powered rail was overshadowed by the appearance of a relatively cheaper fuel - petroleum. That made sense - at the time. Until the 1970s, the USA was the world's top oil producer. Those days are long over, and so should the illusion that we can waste energy.

If we do not immediately transition from petroleum, we are primed to crash.

The future is rail - 'lectric rail.
Get America "Back on Track"!

Reference material:
The Oil Drum | Stories tagged with "overview"
The Oil Drum | Multiple Birds – One Silver BB: A synergistic set of solutions to multiple issues focused on Electrified Railroads
strickland.ca - transportation energy efficiency (fuel consumption) (http://strickland.ca/efficiency.html - broken link) **
NARP: National Association of Railroad Passengers
Rails - New Mexico's Passenger Rail Action Group (http://www.nmrails.org/index.html - broken link)
THE TROLLEY STOP
Welcome to world.nycsubway.org
http://www.apta.com
RailroadForums.com - Railroad discussion forum and photo gallery
LRTA - The Light Rail Transit Association site
Portland Transport: Changing Railroads in the U.S.: Is now the time for a national electrification program?
Passenger Rail for the Shasta Route: Table of Contents
Carfree Cities: Transport Improvements: Interstate Rail Proposal
Transportation Electrification, electric transit, electric railways - Light Rail Now

** James Strickland, M Sc, sums it up:
" A transportation system that relies on a "non-renewable" resource is bound for collapse - the only question is whether we adapt in time, not whether we need to adapt. "
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