If Milwaukee County had light rail, would you use it? (Racine: appointed, tax)

[KC3700]

Originally Posted by jjacobeclark

Why would focusing on colleges be a disaster?

Because of a number of things:

1. College is only in session during certain parts of the year. There are weeks where this train line would be running empty.
2. College students recieve subsidized bus fare, so the majority of the cost burden would be on the shoulders of people who don't use the line.
3. A lot of college students are here temporarily, they may be impressed with our system but we can't count on them to support it in the future.
4. Colleges, most notably UWM, already enjoy a disproportionately high quality of bus service, so the cost/benefit analysis of building a new light rail line over there would not make sense.
5. College students usually live near campus and go out near campus. Light rail is designed for people with long commutes. College students would probably save a negligable amount of time by using light rail. Such short stop-and-start travel would also slow the travel time of the light rail vehicle. These short trips, like from UWM to Downtown, would be best served by buses.
6. It would be a better investment per transit dollar, to invest in using light rail to connect Milwaukee workers with jobs in the suburbs, as these jobs contribute more to the local economy in the short term.

Originally Posted by jjacobeclark

Low income neighborhoods would benefit greatly if they saw lines too. I think Fond Du Lac Ave and Forest Home Ave would make great routes as they would pass through some of the poorest neighborhoods in the city. It would provide a means of transportation to those people as well as spur much needed economic development in those neighborhoods.

I agree.

I'll give you an example of why light rail would make a bigger difference in these corridors than over by UWM, for instance.

Source: Summer 2009 bus schedules, MCTS

UWM: Rt 30: every 7-10 minutes peak time, 15 minutes off peak.

Fond du Lac: Rt. 23: every 8-10 minutes peak time, 20-25 off peak. (Not so bad)

Forest Home: Rt. 14: Every 20 minutes peak time, 25-35 off peak. (Godawful.)

I think the smartest course of action is to address gaps in service first, then to enhance service in other areas.

[EastSideMKE]

Originally Posted by KC3700

Because of a number of things:

1. College is only in session during certain parts of the year. There are weeks where this train line would be running empty.
2. College students recieve subsidized bus fare, so the majority of the cost burden would be on the shoulders of people who don't use the line.
3. A lot of college students are here temporarily, they may be impressed with our system but we can't count on them to support it in the future.
4. Colleges, most notably UWM, already enjoy a disproportionately high quality of bus service, so the cost/benefit analysis of building a new light rail line over there would not make sense.
5. College students usually live near campus and go out near campus. Light rail is designed for people with long commutes. College students would probably save a negligable amount of time by using light rail. Such short stop-and-start travel would also slow the travel time of the light rail vehicle. These short trips, like from UWM to Downtown, would be best served by buses.
6. It would be a better investment per transit dollar, to invest in using light rail to connect Milwaukee workers with jobs in the suburbs, as these jobs contribute more to the local economy in the short term.

1. College is in session 9 months out of the year, with most colleges offering summer classes as well. The summer is Milwaukee's peak tourism season, the students who go home for the summer will be replaced by tourists.

2. College students get a U-Pass, which is partially paid for by tuition.

3. Perhaps we wouldn't lose so many college grads to Chicago and Minneapolis if we had light rail.

4. Are you forgetting that the East Side is also popular with lots of people who aren't in college? I think a lot of people in neighboring 'hoods like Riverwest and Brewer's Hill would use it too.

5. Not all college students live near campus. I would say nearly half of the Marquette students live on the East Side because it's much nicer than the Avenues West neighborhood. Commuter rail is for people living in Waukesha and Oconomowoc. Stations are usually located 1-5 miles apart. Light rail is for people who want to get around within the city to places like Bayshore Town Center, Mayfair Mall, Miller Park, the Summerfest grounds, State Fair Park, and the airport. Stations are usually located 0.5-1 miles apart. Streetcars are for areas like downtown where you would have stops every few blocks or so.

Originally Posted by KC3700

I agree.

I'll give you an example of why light rail would make a bigger difference in these corridors than over by UWM, for instance.

Source: Summer 2009 bus schedules, MCTS

UWM: Rt 30: every 7-10 minutes peak time, 15 minutes off peak.

Fond du Lac: Rt. 23: every 8-10 minutes peak time, 20-25 off peak. (Not so bad)

Forest Home: Rt. 14: Every 20 minutes peak time, 25-35 off peak. (Godawful.)

I think the smartest course of action is to address gaps in service first, then to enhance service in other areas.

I totally agree that bus service needs improvement in Milwaukee, but that's never going to happen until the metro area forms an RTA to cover the 7 counties in Greater Milwaukee. Discussing light rail doesn't prevent the city and suburban counties from improving bus service. Also light rail is a lot more sexy than buses. You'd have a hard time getting some high-paid executive from Northwestern Mutual or GE Healthcare to ride to work on a city bus, but a riding a train is a whole different story.

[Milwaukee City]

I agree on the whole RTA thing, however you would be hard pressed to find someone from Elkhorn to pay for Milwaukee regional transit if it doesn't serve them. At least have a 6 county RTA. I don't think people realize how many different transit operations we have to cart people around. How about just having one so you don't have to worry about transfers and timing of transfers and taking cabs to fill in the holes. A more complete system would be useful. Let's see their is Greyhound, Megabus, badger bus, coach USA, Mcts, Wcts, Racine county transit, kenosha county transit, airport express, Lamers, not to mention all the county express buses. Let's get one system that interacts with different parts of the region and works together instead of competing.

[Milwaukee City]

State panel approves purchase of trains without bids - JSOnline

[green_mariner]

Originally Posted by Milwaukee City

State panel approves purchase of trains without bids - JSOnline

The trains are being purchased for a line from MPLS to Milwaukee to Chicago. That is a start in the right direction. With that said, light rail system for Milwaukee metro is something that would be a good idea.

[EastSideMKE]

Originally Posted by Milwaukee City

State panel approves purchase of trains without bids - JSOnline

I'm all for competition, but I can appreciate the fact that the trains are going to be built in Wisconsin. I doubt most other companies would have agreed to that stipulation.

I actually believe that if the cities in the Rust Belt converted their factories to produce things like solar panels, trains/trolleys, windmills, etc that they could create a lot of high-paying manufacturing jobs. Back in WWII, the gov't asked Ford and GM and other companies to start making bombs, planes, and tanks, and they were able to do it at the drop of a hat. I don't see why something like that isn't possible again.

[green_mariner]

Originally Posted by jjacobeclark

I'm all for competition, but I can appreciate the fact that the trains are going to be built in Wisconsin. I doubt most other companies would have agreed to that stipulation.

I actually believe that if the cities in the Rust Belt converted their factories to produce things like solar panels, trains/trolleys, windmills, etc that they could create a lot of high-paying manufacturing jobs. Back in WWII, the gov't asked Ford and GM and other companies to start making bombs, planes, and tanks, and they were able to do it at the drop of a hat. I don't see why something like that isn't possible again.

It can be done. And it needs to be done.

[Milwaukee City]

New bus service to link UW campuses, University of Minnesota - JSOnline

[green_mariner]

I say extend the rail to all of metropolitan Milwaukee.

[Badger]

Originally Posted by EnjoyEP

The big question for all of you who support this:

Answer who would pay for the construction and maintenance of such a system. We are talking billions and billions and BILLIONS of dollars.

Who is writing the checks?

the same people who subsidise the roads and bridges with billions and billions and BILLIONS of dollars, that's who.