Florida family movin to Wisconsin (Milwaukee, Madison: home, taxes, live)

[lilred0005]

To the OP, I am curious as to why you want to leave Fla. I too am looking to move from the Ft. Lauderdale area and have narrowed it down to Northern New Hampshire or Iowa. I hear the warnings about the winter all the time too but at least you can layer. Here in S. Fla there are only so many clothes you can take off-lol! Good luck on the move!

[EnjoyEP]

Originally Posted by vdy1985

Dude, you guys are all doom gloom about winter.

With respect then, you aren't reading my posts in this thread. That hasn't been my point in this thread whatsoever.

I explained that I personally am very worn out by the winter weather here, however, I also explained in detail *why* I have given the very appropriate words of "warning" to someone moving here who's not familiar with an upper Midwestern winter...

FOR INSTANCE...

Originally Posted by vdy1985

Extreme heat is much worse than extreme cold.

Maybe it is. Maybe it isn't. That is up to each individual. To my mother, she would agree with you - she would die living somewhere where consistently the thermometer got into even the 90s.

To me, extreme cold is a tick worse.

This varies from person to person. I have never "sold" this as anything other than that.

HOWEVER, to someone whose knowledge / experience of an upper Midwest winter is very, very limited, and whose frame of reference is the tropics of South Florida, to not advise them that winter in Wisconsin - living in it - is going to be a complete jolt / shock is - again with due respect - nuts.

KEY EXAMPLE: My inlaws live in a VERY humid, tropic climate. I mean, much consistently warmer than anything even in the mainland US. I have visited them there, sure, so even I have a little bit of a flavor or understanding of what living in that heat is like (unlike what it sounded from the OP to Wisconsin).

However, if we just decided to up and up move there, I think residents there would be doing me a disservice to not at least kind of brace me for the extreme elements that I would be encountering, and that admittedly, I have absolutely no experience in living in day in and day out.

Sure, maybe I could live in it for a year or two and end up not minding it or even enjoying it. It is a possibility. Just like this OP could end up moving from South Florida to Wisconsin and enjoying the heck out of the cold, long winters here...I wouldn't count on it, but it is possible.

But to not brace a lifelong resident of a rather tropical climate, considering moving fairly "stone cold" to an extreme cold climate - a completely 180 from what their lifelong frame of reference and experience is - again, is nuts.

Again, it would be one thing if this person was relocating from, oh, say, St. Louis - a milder, warmer winter, however at least they would have some frame of reference what blizzards, snow, ice, cold snaps, etc. are. It would still be an adjustment, however, they would at least have a frame of reference.

You could use this with other towns maybe like NYC to Milwaukee or Philly to Milwaukee or DC to Milwaukee or Denver to Milwaukee. Hell, even Atlanta or Albuquerque or Portland or Sacramento would at least provide them the concept of 4-seasons...even if they are much less drastic than Milwaukee's.

However, South Florida doesn't even much get into the seasons thing. It just would be a huge, major lifestyle adjustment - for better or worse - and to come into it blind would be a big mistake.

Also, again, as I have noted a few times in this thread, the reverse is true too. My mom has lived her entire life in the Milwaukee area and has traveled fairly sporadically. Albuquerque - when I lived there - is about the hottest summer weather she's ever experienced.

If she just up and up on a whim wanted to move to Phoenix or Las Vegas or Death Valley or Palm Springs, I would hope to God that someone would warn her about the huge adjustment that extremely long, boiling hot summers would be like.

Again, she could end up not minding those summers, or even like them - who knows? But she damn sure better know what she's getting into because it'll be a completely different experience / lifestyle than she's ever had.

Originally Posted by vdy1985

BTW, EnjoyEP, my fiancee came from SoCal (avg witner temp in the upper 60's and 80+ April to November) 2 weeks ago. She was freaked the hell out. She is a typical SoCal girl spoiled by the weather, she use to consider under 70 degrees cold. But after 2 days she was fine because I got her a big proper jacket that you need here. She was unprepared, but once she had the proper clothing she was fine (and it stopped snowing).

Yeah, but short visits / vacations, etc., don't count.

Seriously.

I have been in Phoenix and Vegas during the hearts of their summers - in just unbearable 115 degree heat with night time heat barely under 100 - and it was miserable. However, I didn't really mind a lick, because it was a unique, new different experience and just something to deal with.

Get her pulse after she's lived here for a couple of winters. See what her attitude is like then. Even if we have a March/April akin to last year's with massive snow storms into the middle of April. See what her perspective is next year in mid-November when it turns very cold and she knows there won't be a break until April.

I am not saying of course that she'll hate winter by those times. Maybe she won't. Maybe she'll love it even more! Everyone is different and there are some that don't hate winter, or tolerate it well, or even like it.

However, to use her frame of reference at this point is just not quite fair to someone looking to relocate here on a full-time basis.

ALSO...I believe you are still a bit younger, and rent? I am guessing she's not working up here yet? That's cool of course...but her (or anyone's) perspective might be altered if/when she has to pump out monthly heating bills, or has to deal with commuting to/from work in snow or ice or cold, or has to maintain stuff on a vehicle with the salt, etc.

I guess what I am saying is, when I was in college here, the winter weather didn't get to me as much as it does now as my responsibilities in and to the weather weren't as great; that heat coming out of my apartment was included in my rent, so who cares where it was set, etc. I was too busy socializing and having fun to really be affected by what the weather was, etc.

However, mundane, every day working-class life can be a different story, and extremes in the weather - whatever they are - can then play a bigger part in mood or perspective.

Again, I am not saying that in everyday life her mood *would* be worsened by the winter weather. Who knows? That is up to her and her tastes. And hell, maybe the less-congested, less-pricey, less-polluted, less-traffic nature would be so much an adjustment quality-of-life wise living here versus SoCal that the winter weather would be a minor "downside" to her major "upsides". All of these things are possible and come into play, and I think if you read my posts, I wouldn't discount those things for the world. Even to a winter-hater like me, I find beauty of the winter here and appreciate the heck out of gorgeous months here like June or September when it is hard to find a nicer place to be.

This is long, but I am being "accused" of things that I haven't posted. I have never said "winter sucks here, don't move here" because that's not accurate and not even how I feel. But this is an informational spot for potential relocators, and if I get a vague post like this one saying, "hey, I am moving to Milwaukee from a lifelong in South Florida - only visted Milwaukee twice know little about it", my first thought is to compare/contrast the two areas, and certainly, weather would be high, high HIGH on that list for better or worse.

[EnjoyEP]

Originally Posted by Ron Burgundy

No offense, but maybe that's your problem. Is the average Milwaukeean going to be spending hours outside daily in sub-freezing weather? No.

1. No offense taken; hard to offend me with respectful debate / banter, and I guess that is what this is (although I think if folks really understood here what I was actually trying to communicate - and maybe I did so better in the previous post I just threw up - I think almost everyone reasonably would agree with what I am saying).

2. You are right. I spend much, much more time outdoors than many / most I know.

HOWEVER...that leads in many instances to the whole "cabin fever" / SAD type of thing so prevalent in many people here, and actually I think in the long term gives many people an even more harsh, depressed reaction to winters here than mine.

I think to folks that like to get exercise, let to get it ideally outdoors, or just like to breath air that isn't indoor, forced air, it is very vital here to get outdoors even in the harshest of winter temps - just by bundling properly, etc.

3. Again though, if you read through my posts in this thread, I am not just going on and lamenting my own pissing and moaning about the weather.

If someone is from South Florida - if they are acclimated and enjoy the heat - and they move up here and the cold does shock them (not saying it will, but it likely could) and in-turn they end up "hibernating" (as so, so, so many locals do here), it could really be a huge, huge tough adjustment.

I am not saying it is good or bad. But it is what it is. And someone relocating from South Florida just needs to understand or be aware of that.

Originally Posted by Ron Burgundy

I agree that there's no need to sugarcoat it, but to constantly bring it up as the first and foremost criteria of living here tilts a bit towards overkill.

If someone was relocating here from Chicago, Minneapolis, Cleveland, Detroit, Boston, Pittsburgh or Buffalo, I would barely have even mentioned it.

If someone was relocating here from Denver, St. Louis, KC, NYC, Philly, DC, Cincinnati, etc., I would have mentioned it as something to be conscious of but wouldn't barely make a big deal out of it.

However, if someone is locating here from a polar, 180 degree opposite climate like tropical South Florida with very little familiarity or experience with this area, yep, I am going to make a big deal out of it. Not to "scare" someone, but to make sure they know what the heck they are getting into in terms of a complete 180-degree difference.

Originally Posted by Ron Burgundy

Yes, it may be a bit of a shock for an extreme outsider, but who's to say they'll be completely unable to cope or bring themselves to dress warmly.

Nothing. I never said that.

I have never once said, "you'll hate it here" or "winter will drive you back" or even "you won't like winter here". Never. Never even implied it.

However, I did fully draw a picture - what it feels like like the OP was lacking - that perspective of how dramatically winter will be here from what they are used to, and what they earnestly must ponder and consider before they make such a potentially life-altering move, as any moves of 1500 miles or whatever truly are.

*Let's say that this lifelong South Floridian with little experience in the area actually does up and up move 1500 miles here on account of her husband's desires. She ends up here. Holy crud, she thinks, this winter is amazing. I love tropical weather - what my perspective was my whole life. This is so different. Why didn't anyone tell me? But now what do I do - I am stuck because I moved here.

Certainly - again - I am not saying that *would* be her reaction. But I think to just discount it as a reasonable possibility is somewhat a disservice to the poster. It is just something again she should ideally be fully aware of before moving 1500 miles.

You or I might say, "well, did that poster not ever watch the Weather Channel" or have access to a computer that tells temps, etc., I will say two things to that:

-Based on the vagueness or her questions initially, and my experience with other posters through the years in CD-land, you'd be shocked how many people do have such a limited perspective or research or insight into areas they are moving to, or considering.

-It is one thing to guess in your heat what 13 degrees for a high feels like from what you have read or seen on TV. However, it is something you can't imagine until you experience it for a while, just like 115 in Phoenix or many months of endless gray and drizzle in Seattle.

Originally Posted by Ron Burgundy

And please elaborate on how moving to a colder climate can directly bring about financial despair. I don't think the doomsday approach is helping.

This is the ONE point between these last two posts that I will gladly cede. "Financial despair" was worded too strongly, and for that I fully retract my verbiage. I am almost laughing at it right now as I read it...I could've worded it equally as kind of silly as "financial ruin" and I picture someone with their WE Energies bill leaping Great Depression-era esque out of their office window.

Obviously, this is NOT accurate and I was too strong in my verbiage with it.

In fact, Milwaukee is a middle-of-the-road type of place in terms of cost of living - far from ultra expensive, and certainly cheaper than the majority of South Florida.

I guess I was going back to someone not familiar with high heating bills for many, many months - that IS a cost of living consideration. To someone making $150K, maybe not as much, to someone making $30K, probably a much bigger deal. To someone like me in the middle of that range, bigger than smaller. It is true that electricity in a place like Miami can run large in A/C, however, A/C still doesn't match heater/boiler/furnace.

I was also referencing the costs for car maintenance, replacement, wear and tear which just simply are significantly higher in a very cold climate.

There are just those little pains in the butt type of expenses too that you experience here in the winter that don't come up in the summer months that just kind of kill. A frozen pipe here, calling AAA for a jump there, etc.

Certainly though, I was admittedly overly verbose with my description there, and if that OP is still reading this, please accept my overreaction on that one.

[#Littledog]

Just a reminder, we've had 2 terrible winters. They aren't always this bad.

[EnjoyEP]

Originally Posted by #Littledog

Just a reminder, we've had 2 terrible winters. They aren't always this bad.

Littledog, But I am not arguing that they are all this bad!!!!!

Seriously...folks...please...I am not trying to be rude or mean-spirited or anything as you guys are ALL GREAT posters!! But seriously!! How can you take what I have written in this thread (in advice to the OP who I don't think is even with us anymore) as all doom and gloom about winter here!?

Again, ALL I am doing is noting the drastic, DRASTIC difference in weather between SOUTH FLORIDA and the Milwaukee area between November and April. That's it!

Even if this or last was one of our more "average" winters (45 inches of snow, average highs in the 20s and lows in the teens) - or even warmer/less snowy than average - to someone whose lived their ENTIRE LIVES on a tropical beach basically, the winters will just be an incredibly different experience than what they've had before.

And who knows!! Again, maybe that South Floridian will become the biggest fan of ice fishing or snow mobiling or snowman making or sledding or x-country skiing or anything.

But they will just have to drastically adjust their lifestyle - for better or worse or in-between - and if moving "cold" (no pun intended) to a new area, they should at least be aware of this and know what they are getting into!!

I mean, even my frame of reference of living the past few years in Albuquerque, NM (much milder than Milwaukee but much more winter-filled than South Florida), everyone keeps telling me "winters are normally not this bad." Well sure, of course I know that, because I lived the bulk of my life here anyway. But it isn't like in a "normal" winter I would be out suntanning in 80s-degree weather at Bradford Beach; that isn't necessarily a bad or a good thing...it just is what it is!!

[Milwaukee City]

I think extreme cold is much worse than extreme heat.

[Hntr]

No, extreme heat is much worse than extreme cold.

[Hntr]

I too, would suggest that they give serious consideration to the cold weather we have in Wisconsin. It will be an eyeopener!

[dodger15]

I'm from S. Louisiana and lived in Milwaukee for three years, Oct. 2005-Oct. 2008. The winters were more than I was ever used to and, quite frankly, more than I could take. I was accustomed to a hot, high humidity climate and then all of a sudden having extreme cold, gray skies and 100 inches of snow just last winter totally turned me off. I moved back down south, this time to Kentucky, in Dec. 2008 before winter could kick into high gear.

I'm just one person but it was difficult for this transplant. S. Florida is even more sunnier and warmer than my old stomping grounds so be ready for a serious culture shock. I'll agree with the others, you really need to visit Milwaukee right about now and then think if you could handle it for an extended period...like until summer.

[thrashee]

I'm going to throw in my own 2 cents and mimic what others have stated here as well:

I used to live in Milwaukee, and just moved to Denver about 7 months ago. The thing that astounds me about Denver is the sunshine and relatively mild winters. I work remotely for a company that is based out of Brookfield, and I realize how easily I have forgotten what Wisconsin winters are like when I chat with my coworkers and hear things like how 94 was shut down and their highs are 5 degrees.

Ignore what anyone here is saying about being a crybaby in the winter time. The winters suck in Wisconsin, period, and if you're coming from a place like Florida, I promise you they are going to suck that much more. Granted, it's just a fact of life living in Wisconsin, but after all, you have the choice of whether or not to move there.

Brookfield is a relatively high class suburb of Milwaukee, and amounts to a gigantic strip mall along one busy street (Bluemound). It takes around 20-30 minutes to get to downtown Milwaukee taking the interstate, which during rush hour can get extremely backed up. Milwaukee as a city isn't too bad, but it always struck me as a dirty city with a chip on its shoulder regarding its next door neighbor (Chicago). Liquor stores close at 9:00, but you'll find a small dive bar on virtually every corner.

I did enjoy summertime in Milwaukee--the weather tends to be hot and humid, but nothing on par with humidity in Florida. And fall can be gorgeous, as you get all the colors of the leaves turning.