How far out of MKE do you have to go... (Madison: 2010, violent crime)

[JMadison]

Originally Posted by Milwaukee City

99% of black people in Milwaukee live in the near-north side and spans northwest to northridge. The near south side is very Hispanic if that would bother you, but south of Oklahoma ave is all white.

Brown Deer is the only suburb that has a sizable black population but their are upper class as opposed to their ghetto counter parts.

This explains what a local said to me when we discussed this verbally. That my impression that it's all dangerous ghetto from the numbers was misplaced... but that they still wouldn't live in Brown Deer. The suggestion was that Menomonee Falls might be a better choice.

OK, so we've thrashed the whole issue pretty solidly. Now let's look at it from the other side.

How can the bad areas be turned around? Or can they? I can't say I've ever heard of a bad area making a comeback. Sure you hear of gentrification. But that's essentially displacement.

[JMadison]

Originally Posted by Milwaukee City

Right On Brother!!!

Yes, but what that lead me to ask is two questions

1) Are the limosine liberals... far away for the problems... well meaning or hypocrite posers?

2) Are the folks right in the middle of the problems essentially correct in their intolerance? I.e. are the folks actually facing the mixing the liberals champion, seeing first hand, that is doesn't work?

[Milwaukee City]

How can the bad areas be turned around? Or can they? I can't say I've ever heard of a bad area making a comeback. Sure you hear of gentrification. But that's essentially displacement.

I don't know if you ever been to Milwaukee or are coming to. I can tell you this Brown Deer is perfectly safe and we have seen a huge amount of gentrification. IE Walker's Point, Third Ward, Riverwest, Brewers Hill, Halyard Park, Avenues West.

Are the limousine liberals... far away for the problems... well meaning or hypocrite posers?

I would say yes, but only for the reason that people responsible for Milwaukee funding and schools and state budgeting is done 80miles away in Madison where people have never had to deal with big city problems.

Are the folks right in the middle of the problems essentially correct in their intolerance? I.e. are the folks actually facing the mixing the liberals champion, seeing first hand, that is doesn't work?

I would say yes, but even people right in the thick of it can be completely blinded by their lack of getting outside their coffee houses or their circle of friends.

[JMadison]

So for #1 are you saying "well meaning", "posers" or both?

For #2, I think my point was poorly expressed. What I mean to say is, "Folks in highly integrated places like Memphis, Atlanta, St. Louis, Little Rock, tend to be the most racist by most accounts. Is it because they are actually experiencing the issues that the liberals located elsewhere are not? Thus the "evil" non-liberals might actually be right?"

I guess what is throwing me on your response to #2 is that my impression of southerns is that they don't spend too much time at Starbucks. But I could be wrong. Been away from anything resembling the south for a decade, at this point.

In general I was posing the question more on a national level than local to WI. I.e. "It's easy for a white person in Salt Lake City to talk integration and rainbow coalition, because it's likely they'll never have to live with it. Yet southerners are living in it... and they are allegedly the most racist of all, so are they right?"

[Milwaukee City]

Ok more clear now!
A: #2 I would say in the north we are not even close to the amount of racism of down south based on my previous living experiences in Louisiana and Texas but I grew up in Milwaukee and always had black/hispanic people around me so I really never even noticed much racism, I was the only white kid among my friends.

A: #1 a little of both, well intended but would never want to live amongst or close to ground zero for what ever their concerns maybe. So it's like offering advice for someone who lives in a dangerous area on how they can change their neighborhood but never wanting to move anywhere near the problem.

[jjacobeclark]

Originally Posted by JMadison

To get away from ghetto and crime?

Demographics show an 2007 estimate of 40% black. That usually protends big problems.

So suppose someone had to work in MKE. How far do you have to go to get away from MKE? Is it possible to reasonably commute from those areas?

First of all, why do you want to live in Milwaukee if you are uncomfortable being around Black people? Milwaukee has the 8th largest Black population in the United States. That would be like moving to San Francisco and not liking Asian people.

[jjacobeclark]

Originally Posted by Angorlee

jMadison is just being realistic. One can't deny that when there are many blacks living in a neighborhood there is also high crime. if someone wants to deny that reality then go live in an area that is 40% black or more and see if you don't change your mind. But keep in mind that the reality of black crime doesn't mean that one hates all blacks and therefore this thread is not racist. Why doesn't jMadison have a right to stay away from areas that have a large black population if crime is rampant in those areas? And why doesn't jMadison have a right to express his views even though his views represent a reality that some of you deny. And lastely, why don't whites have a right to form their own neighborhoods and then defend their neighborhoods of integration of unwanted kinds and the right to defend our neighborhoods when crime creeps in?

Angorlee = Troll

[pirate_lafitte]

Originally Posted by JMadison

EnjoyEP - I simply asked what I'm truly worried about. There is a large % black based on credible sources. And equally credible sources show a strong relationship between that number and violent crime. What that number doesn't show is distribution. Consider Compton vrs. Greater L.A. or Orange County as examples. So I felt the question was valid give the data "out there". Granted it does come with a lot of controversy. Given I may have to make a go/no go decision and don't want to come to town, only to have to turn around a claw my way out (at expense to an employer as well), I felt it neccesary to ask it as written. Hopefully to get fast and direct answers.

Ron Burgandy - It's not about race based superiority/inferiority, it's about what widely published numbers show, my aprehensions about such areas and my desire to avoid them. I don't listen to AM, so not sure what you are talking about. I'm at least 1500 miles away. If anyone has one, it's blacks. We have an African American president, and white flight is a real phenomenon.

40% is about 3x the national average. And Milwaukee is a "minority majority city" I believe. That *does* lean in a "higher than average crime" direction, for whatever underlying reasons.

If you actually have to work at avoiding such areas, well, then I'd say it's a place to avoid, wouldn't you?

Further, what good would living in say Fox Point (it's a wealthy area?) with a population of 7,000 and 99% richy rich if you are in a metro area of 1.5 *million* and there's a huge crime element... and you have to go work in it every day? That'd be as bad as living in Summerlin or Green Vally in Vegas and having to work downtown at Fremont Experience (which is an "experience" as I can say from direct experience.)

This is why S. Orange County *is* so expensive. The bad areas are 20-30 *miles* away near the south of L.A. Massive amounts of bufferage between Compton, for example. Both in distance and population figures. I see this as a *good* thing.

So, no insults intended, just looking for the direct and honest answer. As we write, I'm already mapping the statistics to a graphic map to try and characterize the various areas, so this isn't a "race bait" thread. It's a, "What's the truth? Is it a mini-Detroit?" Thread. And if it *is* a mini-Detroit, is there an avoidance strategy available. If not, then probably best to not make the move. Seems like a logical strategy to me. I'm tired of broken into homes and cars. Or vehicles flat out stolen. As well as at least one or two people I know being killed.

As for portend. Yeah, I make a lot of typos. Not the world's greatest typer. Especially when working fast.

Have you once thought about the fact that poverty could be a big part of it. I am not offering excuses because a person should know right from wrong. With that said, when the economy sours(which happened in Milwaukee), crime goes up alot. The black unemployment in Milwaukee is among the highest in the USA as far as major cities go(actually it might be the highest). Unemployed people, alot of poverty, desperation to survive, lack of community unity, will definitely lead a place to decrepitude. That is what happened to Milwaukee's black community. It is easy to say things about black communities and about Milwaukee, but please, do ask why it happened. People need to ask the how and why places have turned out they way they have. As for Compton, well , I can say this, there are black communities that are successful and wealthy. Ladera Heights(LA,CA), Windsor Park(LA,CA), Baldwin Hills(LA,CA), and their crime rates are low. Race might be a correlation, but poverty is a bigger part of it, not to make excuses, but that is how it usually works.

[jjacobeclark]

Originally Posted by JMadison

Hi Angorlee,
Thanks for the support. It is a touchy subject. And no doubt, a black person is naturally seeing red at this line of questioning. Yet the stats are there. I don't really know how to ask this sort of thing and not upset folks. Yet I need the info to make a valid decision (for me, of course... some one else might look at the same data and say "oh cool an urban vibe").

Could you please share some of these "stats" with the rest of us???

[JMadison]

Originally Posted by jjacobeclark

First of all, why do you want to live in Milwaukee if you are uncomfortable being around Black people? Milwaukee has the 8th largest Black population in the United States. That would be like moving to San Francisco and not liking Asian people.

May have to. The economy and where the job offers come from. Trust me, it's not at all what I *want* to do.

The way I see it, you have maybe 80 summers on this earth... why would you want to spend any more time in winter than you have to. So first dislike is cold weather. Just on that grounds alone, if I were in the leisure class, I wouldn't even consider it.