Any good cheap eats downtown? (Milwaukee, Wells: mortgage, neighborhoods, price)

[quijote]

Originally Posted by EnjoyEP

OK, OK, OK...if smoking is not a "political issue" but rather a "health issue" and that is why to a not-big-government advocate smoking should be "banned"...then let me ask this:

Why then, shouldn't smoking - if such a "health hazzrd" - be completely made illegal?

See, this is the huge problem I have with all of this. I have *never* been a smoker myself, nor is my spouse - we are as pretty much anti-smoker as you can get - (I can't fathom the expenses, the lack of cleanliness, and yes, the cancer concerns, etc.) - and yet, I am as big an advocate (as I would think any non-big-government advocate would be) of the gov't not butting its big, bigger, and ever-growing-biggish damn nose into the smoking issue.

If smoking *really should be "banned* due to such persistent *health issues* that seem to worry liberal politicians so, why not make it illegal?

I think we all know the answers to that, so, my point being, if the practice is a completely legal practice, then leave it up to the (few remaining) private industries in this country to determine how to handle the issue.



I am telling you people, you have no idea the slippery slope you are opening up when you allow (and fully wholeheartedly encourage) the government to "crack down" on or ban fully *LEGAL* practices. Especially under the premise that "tax payer dollars are involved".

I just plead with you all to really think and consider the Pandora's Box you are inviting. Remember, our tax dollars are involved with Social Security payouts. "Ummm, grandma, this is taxpayer money...we don't feel buying a jug of brandy is apporpriate." Welfare is taxpayer money "ummm...ma'am, we don't think buying that OK magazine and that box of cookies is approrpriate".

Or, to that other end...buying fast food is unhealthy. Thus, let's "ban" it. Buying frozen custard / sweets is unhealthy. Let's ban it. Buying Miller Beer is unhealthy (or Sprecher or Lakefront). Let's ban it. Buying brats is unhealthy. Let's ban it.

You may think this is a reach, but big, nasty stuff *always* starts with a *reach*. Always. Once Pandora's box is cracked open, she'll never get closed.

As for the OP's problem that he continually seems to encounter with the smoking, I respectfully think something is afoul here. There is absolutely no way that the Hilton in Downtown Milwaukee doesn't have a no smoking section. No chance. OP - if I am wrong, I will heartily eat my words. However, I fail to believe it by far. I think you have somehow been duped.

I apologize for getting somewhat off track and verging on topical dialog that is better for a different forum (like Politics & Other Controversies); I guess the OP is so concerned about the smoking issue here in his hotel in Milwaukee, I wished to express why I think it is a mistake to bash local government for not following way of every other state and instantly just "banning" smoking state-wide (without making it illegal.).

Well, sex and nudity are legal, too, but I'm perfectly fine with government keeping them out of the public domain and restricting them to specific spaces. From what I understand, many anti-government types work hard to keep sex in the bedroom, and some of those people even try to regulate what goes on even there. People used to throw excrement onto the streets, but public interests changed to the point of banning such activity. So, I'm not sure the debate is exclusively a "big-government vs. small-government" one. As with smoking and other such issues, there are many other dimensions (morality, public order, health, etc.) involved. In spite of anti-gov and pro-gov rhetoric, both liberals and conservatives make ample use of Big Government to push through their wishes, and the reasons often involve multiple factors.

In most discussions on the issue, the problem with smoking in public revolves around second-hand smoke. This is why bars and restaurants are referred to as "workplaces" in the discussions. Of course, if smoking is de facto restricted to a person's private home, other people inside the home are subject to the second-hand consequences. Perhaps that would justify making smoking illegal?

One of the problems is the idea that smoking tobacco is a legitimate activity that should be allowed somewhere. That idea is slowly eroding, and perhaps it should. Many of the things that we today consider "illegal substances" (hallucinogens and other mind-altering drugs) used to be legal and culturally accepted in other cultures, many of which existed in territory now occupied by the U.S. Government and anglo-american "morals". Was it wrong to make such activity illegal? Maybe, maybe not. But that's how it is now, and most people today don't feel so bad about it. Perhaps smoking is headed in that direction, and if it is, it's possible that few people will care so much 100 years from now.

[quijote]

By the way, EnjoyEP, I understand the issue you raise about referring to taxes and the prohibition of activity (or, if you will, the curtailment of civil liberties). But I don't see it so much as a "slippery slope," but rather as a "work in progress." Hundreds of years ago in Europe (and today in various places), taxes were assessed on common people in order to support kingly living, aristocratic lifestyles, and imperialistic wars. In the U.S., taxes used to go to support institutions such as slavery and sweatshop labor.

Perhaps smoking is comparatively less horrific, but let's not forget: our taxes are a metaphor or symbol of our consent. Our taxes go to all sorts of things, and in many cases they go to things we don't necessarily support. Do tax-exempt churches really have the right to taxpayer-funded police and firefighting services? Do we really want our taxes going to fund roads that encourage accidents and massive waste of resources? Do we really want our taxes to fund discounts on television converters for the masses?

In some way, "health" could be invoked as justification for withholding tax money in all of the above cases, and I agree that it could go too far. In the case of issues that more directly tie with health (welfare-funded obesity, social-security-funded alcoholism, etc.), smoking is just one of the more visible and smellier issues. It has become an easy target. It doesn't mean I or others approve of obesity and excessive drinking, but it is more difficult for smokers (as opposed to overeaters and excessive drinkers) to exercise the self-responsibility needed in order to make smoking socially and publicly tolerated.

Basically, in terms of the "health" issue, the taxpayer's quandary includes this question: "to what extent am I willing to support, as symbolized by my financial contribution to society, the right of society to use those contributions in order to make my life unpleasant and endangered?"

The issue is admittedly complex--I don't approve of tv or junk-infested foods, but my implicit support for these things haven't come back to haunt me in very obvious and persistent ways. Smoking, however, has. So I should continue to support smoking in order to uphold an ideal that has been unevenly applied for centuries, even though doing so affects me in ways that few other activities affect me? Do I support the severe curtailment of the quality of my life so that others may have a fuller life?

Sorry to keep this thread off-topic, but I like the exchange.... If you decide to lock this or move these posts to another thread, I understand.

[jlawrence01]

Threadjacking aside, can we get back to cheap eats in the city of Milwaukee and start a new thread on smoking?????

[Sonrise]

Originally Posted by EnjoyEP

OK, OK, OK...if smoking is not a "political issue" but rather a "health issue" and that is why to a not-big-government advocate smoking should be "banned"...then let me ask this:

Why then, shouldn't smoking - if such a "health hazzrd" - be completely made illegal?

See, this is the huge problem I have with all of this. I have *never* been a smoker myself, nor is my spouse - we are as pretty much anti-smoker as you can get - (I can't fathom the expenses, the lack of cleanliness, and yes, the cancer concerns, etc.) - and yet, I am as big an advocate (as I would think any non-big-government advocate would be) of the gov't not butting its big, bigger, and ever-growing-biggish damn nose into the smoking issue.

If smoking *really should be "banned* due to such persistent *health issues* that seem to worry liberal politicians so, why not make it illegal?

I think we all know the answers to that, so, my point being, if the practice is a completely legal practice, then leave it up to the (few remaining) private industries in this country to determine how to handle the issue.



I am telling you people, you have no idea the slippery slope you are opening up when you allow (and fully wholeheartedly encourage) the government to "crack down" on or ban fully *LEGAL* practices. Especially under the premise that "tax payer dollars are involved".

I just plead with you all to really think and consider the Pandora's Box you are inviting. Remember, our tax dollars are involved with Social Security payouts. "Ummm, grandma, this is taxpayer money...we don't feel buying a jug of brandy is apporpriate." Welfare is taxpayer money "ummm...ma'am, we don't think buying that OK magazine and that box of cookies is approrpriate".

Or, to that other end...buying fast food is unhealthy. Thus, let's "ban" it. Buying frozen custard / sweets is unhealthy. Let's ban it. Buying Miller Beer is unhealthy (or Sprecher or Lakefront). Let's ban it. Buying brats is unhealthy. Let's ban it.

You may think this is a reach, but big, nasty stuff *always* starts with a *reach*. Always. Once Pandora's box is cracked open, she'll never get closed.

As for the OP's problem that he continually seems to encounter with the smoking, I respectfully think something is afoul here. There is absolutely no way that the Hilton in Downtown Milwaukee doesn't have a no smoking section. No chance. OP - if I am wrong, I will heartily eat my words. However, I fail to believe it by far. I think you have somehow been duped.

I apologize for getting somewhat off track and verging on topical dialog that is better for a different forum (like Politics & Other Controversies); I guess the OP is so concerned about the smoking issue here in his hotel in Milwaukee, I wished to express why I think it is a mistake to bash local government for not following way of every other state and instantly just "banning" smoking state-wide (without making it illegal.).

I didn't read your whole post, I'm too lazy. However no one can get second hand fat or second hand drunk. I'm not advocating banning cigs, wanna kill yourself, go for it. However, it's not fair to light up in an enclosed area where I'm trying to enjoy a meal and your filthy stinkin habit has now infected my hair, clothes and food. Smoking is a vile, filthy habit.

[Sonrise]

Originally Posted by jlawrence01

Threadjacking aside, can we get back to cheap eats in the city of Milwaukee and start a new thread on smoking?????

I agree. I don't know if it's considered threadjacking if I was the op and hijacked my own thread though. lol

Back on topic, how long of a walk would it be if I walked from the Hilton to OPH for breakfast tomorrow. Looking at a map, it seems about a 20-25 minute walk. is it a safe walk? Thanks

[jjacobeclark]

Originally Posted by Sonrise

I agree. I don't know if it's considered threadjacking if I was the op and hijacked my own thread though. lol

Back on topic, how long of a walk would it be if I walked from the Hilton to OPH for breakfast tomorrow. Looking at a map, it seems about a 20-25 minute walk. is it a safe walk? Thanks

It's definitely a safe walk, but it's pretty far from the Hilton IMO. It's about 3-4 miles away. You'd be better off catching the #30-Sherman bus that picks up right by your hotel at Wisconsin Ave. & 4th St. All you gotta do is get off at Downer & Belleview and your at the Original Pancake House. I take this same exact route almost every day, I live near the OPH and commute to MATC.

[Sonrise]

Originally Posted by jjacobeclark

It's definitely a safe walk, but it's pretty far from the Hilton IMO. It's about 3-4 miles away. You'd be better off catching the #30-Sherman bus that picks up right by your hotel at Wisconsin Ave. & 4th St. All you gotta do is get off at Downer & Belleview and your at the Original Pancake House. I take this same exact route almost every day, I live near the OPH and commute to MATC.

Hey, thanks. yeah, I saw the bus that said Downer on it, but wasn't sure. How much does it cost? I don't have any cash, only debit and credit cards. I haven't seen one Bank of America since I've been here, are there any?

[quijote]

I agree, catch a bus (Downer 30) to get to the OPH. Bus fares are $2.00 each way. While you're in the area, after breakfast, consider a nice stroll around Lake Park and the surrounding neighborhood.

Milwaukee County Transit System

[Sonrise]

Okay, so I psyched myself up, put on some layers of clothing and headed out in the frigid cold for some dinner. My plan was to go to Real Chili, since many of you raved by it and the reviews and pics online looked yummy. I mapquested the directions from here to 414 W. Wells; it was only two blocks, according to the computer. After walking up and down on Wells between 3rd and 4th for a bit, I couldn't find the place and finally asked a parking lot attendant. he said, "Oh, they tore that down about 5 years ago when they built the convention center". someone forgot to tell the internet. DOH

So, I went back to my room a bit despondent and ordered some delivery from China Gourmet. It was pretty tasty and the hot and sour soup may have been the best that I've ever had. Tomorrow I may take a bus to OPH for breakfast, but I have no cash and the nearest BofA is in Illinois, too far to walk.

[quijote]

Originally Posted by Sonrise

Okay, so I psyched myself up, put on some layers of clothing and headed out in the frigid cold for some dinner. My plan was to go to Real Chili, since many of you raved by it and the reviews and pics online looked yummy. I mapquested the directions from here to 414 W. Wells; it was only two blocks, according to the computer. After walking up and down on Wells between 3rd and 4th for a bit, I couldn't find the place and finally asked a parking lot attendant. he said, "Oh, they tore that down about 5 years ago when they built the convention center". someone forgot to tell the internet. DOH

So, I went back to my room a bit despondent and ordered some delivery from China Gourmet. It was pretty tasty and the hot and sour soup may have been the best that I've ever had. Tomorrow I may take a bus to OPH for breakfast, but I have no cash and the nearest BofA is in Illinois, too far to walk.

Oh, no, no, no! There's a Real Chili on 419 EAST Wells, on the other side of the river (closer to the lake)!!!

to: 419 E Wells St, Milwaukee, WI 53202 - Google Maps



Maybe tomorrow??

By the way, isn't there Bank of America around here? I though they had a presence around Wisconsin and Water Aves.....

Note: I just checked the net, and there should be a B of A at 411 E. Wisconsin.....at least according to that info. Maybe it's just a cash machine affiliated with the B of A network, though.