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Unread 05-29-2007, 01:43 PM
 
Location: Metro Milwaukee, WI
3,059 posts, read 7,528,990 times
Reputation: 1584
Quote:
Originally Posted by vagabond wannabe View Post
i am very surprised to see so little support for madison. it is one of the best cities in the midwest for sure. culture, education, politics, recreation...i don't even know where to begin. it is easily the best of the 3 options.
This shouldn't be stated as fact though. I find Madison quite nice, too, but you list "politics" as one of the big reasons that Madison is great...you should caveat that in fairness to say "if you are a liberal or enjoy liberal politics" Madison is great. I mean, if you are a Goldwater conservative, you may still enjoy Madison too, but politics would not be a huge reason to prefer it. Obviously the political slant in Madison is extremely liberal - I am not saying if that is good or bad or right or wrong - I am just saying that something like that might be great for a liberal-minded person, but wouldn't be a big "plus" to a conservative. I know many conservatives that live in the Madison area and really like it...but they wouldn't list "politics" as one of the reasons that Madison is a great Midwestern city.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vagabond wannabe View Post
no academic culture (try to find a coffee house!),
Boy...is this what the U.S. pop culture has morphed to? Defining academic culture as influenced by having a coffee shop or not?? Come on...that is just silly...I am always amazed at how many "progressive" or "liberal" leaning people in today's culture [with many vocally against conventional U.S. business / profit / free market] sit in an "independent" coffee shop (if not a Starbucks) and think somehow that is cultural...I mean, they don't realize they are supporting good ol' capitalism, profits, etc., all the same...even more so if they are paying $3 or $4 at a chain like Starbucks.

The truth is that culture exists nearly everywhere - but real culture - not the manufactured U.S. pop culture "culture" where it is great to sit around a coffee shop, read about freeing Burma, and bashing the Bush administration. The culture in Green Bay is just as real as anywhere. It has a long, aged, historic history with farming, some transportation, etc. Green Bay is very historic! And yes, that is the real culture of Green Bay...you just have to study it.

But I suspect what you are saying is that it isn't the culture that you really enjoy or prefer. That is fine...but it isn't possible to factually state a town like Green Bay has no culture. It surely does...it is okay to state though that you may not prefer its culture. I really think though citing a coffee shop as a lack of "culture" really throws the argument out the window. Coffee is easy to brew at home, and it won't cost $2-$10 per cup with a dessert at home either.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vagabond wannabe View Post
and ridiculous packer worship...and this from a packer fan. also, it is the most racist city in the state, hands down.
First off, I just fail to see if most of the residents of Green Bay really love the Packers, what is so bad about that, and what problem that is to others - especially a self-proclaimed Packer fan! If they take it too far, how does it hurt anyone else? I mean, most people are rabid fans of something or another....coffee shops for example...but that doesn't harm non-coffee shop loving folks.

I mean, folks in ol' Madison overall pretty much worship Badgers' sports too. Is that such a problem though?

As for the racism, and combining it with the Packers' example, guys like Reggie White (an African American) or LeRoy Butler (an African American) were revered at Lombardi-like levels in GB...somehow I don't think they could've been so popular, or the Packers would be so popular (with a majority of African Americans) if the town was hugely "racist."

Quote:
Originally Posted by vagabond wannabe View Post
all milwaukee has to offer is population. dirty, run-down big rustbelt city.
Yeah, that, and a 1.5+ million metro area, world class restaurants of nearly every ethnicity, a huge/beautiful lakefront, Summerfest and tons of other summertime festivals, Miller Park / the Milwaukee Brewers and the Bradley Center / the Milwaukee Bucks, historic beautiful buildings, a lively and large Downtown and 3rd Ward, 30+ suburbs that are unique,...and about 1000 other things.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vagabond wannabe View Post
just keeping it real folks.
Keeping what real?
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Unread 05-30-2007, 08:58 AM
 
9 posts, read 33,777 times
Reputation: 14
ok, so what is the point of this forum then? nobody likes their city knocked, but are there NO generalizations we can draw? green bay is cuturally deprived, and as you said, that's because the general population doesn't care about culture. and if you really don't think that the Packer's and beer dominate GB, then i just don't get where you're living...

and, i don't live in sprawl land, but what exactly would those "alternatives" be. again, just keeping it real.
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Unread 05-30-2007, 09:07 AM
 
9 posts, read 33,777 times
Reputation: 14
again, so what is the point of this forum? do you live in happy-fairy land where everything is super?

if i had a friend who asked me in which of those three cities they would most likely thrive, based on my values i would answer just as i did. of course, all these posts are based on values, and of course, they are ALL going to be generalizations. just relax, state your views, and let me state mine.

and your view of madison is just silly. i worked for a republican senator a few years back, under a republican governor. when i say it is a rich place politically, i am talking about the fact that the seat of state goverment is there! along with the lafollette institute, a federal appeals court, etc.

and a parting shot: liking star black athletes says NOTHING about race relations in your city. what happens when one tries to own a business, or drive down the street with some friends?
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Unread 05-30-2007, 11:32 AM
 
Location: Green Bay
22 posts, read 62,737 times
Reputation: 15
I can understand that it's easy to fall into social circles in Green Bay where it's all "Packers and Beer". BUt that's not what it's ALL about. It totally depends what sorts of friends you have and what kinds of places you go to. There are many, many places around town where stuff is NOT all decorated in Green and Gold (and of course there are lots that are). .

My point is, look around, Green Bay is a metro of nearly 300,000 and there is a lot more variety to it than people realize.

Remember, only just over half of the population voted to renovate Lambeau Field, and that was coming off Super Bowl years. There are actually lots of people here who HATE the packers and beer, believe it or not.

I've also lived in Madison, and while I liked that city, I'm finding that Green Bay is also very cool, quite cultural, very historical when you look under the surface.

Excellent post, EnjoyEP.

Oh, and P.S., I'm sure minorities in every city are sometimes treated unfairly. I don't think Green Bay is immune from that, there is racism here, but I do think black people & other minorities are GENERALLY treated well here, not always, but probably most of the time. At least based on what I've seen. Green Bay has seen a huge influx of minorities, people of other cultures, in recent years, and I think one of the main reasons they come here is because generally they are treated well, there are decent to good jobs here, it's a great place for families, and yes, there is some diverse culture here too.
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Unread 05-30-2007, 01:32 PM
 
13 posts, read 39,553 times
Reputation: 15
Hoosier_guy,

Green Bay is your best choice, but I think you would like Appleton better. It's safe, there's lots to do and it has a nice downtown. In fact, there is a business downtown called Sparkadoodles (sparkadoodles.com). I believe the owner there is originally from the Twin Cities. Maybe you should contact here and see what she thinks of the area. Appleton is about 30 minutes south of Green bay.

God Bless, Michelle
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Unread 05-31-2007, 12:57 AM
 
Location: Bay View, Milwaukee
1,115 posts, read 2,171,159 times
Reputation: 993
Quote:
Originally Posted by vagabond wannabe View Post
ok, so what is the point of this forum then? nobody likes their city knocked, but are there NO generalizations we can draw? green bay is cuturally deprived, and as you said, that's because the general population doesn't care about culture. and if you really don't think that the Packer's and beer dominate GB, then i just don't get where you're living...

and, i don't live in sprawl land, but what exactly would those "alternatives" be. again, just keeping it real.
I would hope that the point of this forum is to provide reasonably accurate information, even if that information reflects personal values and beliefs. Dismissing Green Bay with a few offhanded comments, and dismissing Milwaukee with a trite one-liner, is about as helpful and accurate as any clumsy stereotype. Perhaps if you defined your understanding of "culture" and explained why Madison has it and other cities don't, then people trying to choose between cities can have a better sense of what you're getting at. Also, do realize that many people from other places in North America--Berkeley, Cambridge, NYC, Toronto--would find the "culture" in Madison (and other Wisconsin cities) as small and stifling. What you find valuable in a community is great, but it's hard to figure out what you value when you focus primarily on what you don't like. Your comments on politics and academic culture are good starts; surely there must be more positive details to say about Madison. Or can it only be seen as a good place by making other places look bad?
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Unread 05-31-2007, 10:18 AM
 
Location: Metro Milwaukee, WI
3,059 posts, read 7,528,990 times
Reputation: 1584
Quote:
Originally Posted by quijote View Post
I would hope that the point of this forum is to provide reasonably accurate information, even if that information reflects personal values and beliefs. Dismissing Green Bay with a few offhanded comments, and dismissing Milwaukee with a trite one-liner, is about as helpful and accurate as any clumsy stereotype. Perhaps if you defined your understanding of "culture" and explained why Madison has it and other cities don't, then people trying to choose between cities can have a better sense of what you're getting at. Also, do realize that many people from other places in North America--Berkeley, Cambridge, NYC, Toronto--would find the "culture" in Madison (and other Wisconsin cities) as small and stifling. What you find valuable in a community is great, but it's hard to figure out what you value when you focus primarily on what you don't like. Your comments on politics and academic culture are good starts; surely there must be more positive details to say about Madison. Or can it only be seen as a good place by making other places look bad?
Right. Very well stated.

Opinions of course are going to be varied and opinions of all kinds are welcomed. But it is important to differentiate opinions from factual inaccuracies. I mean, I could come on here and state, "I don't like Milwaukee in January because it is far, far too hot"...but just because that would be my opinion it would still be misleading.
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Unread 05-31-2007, 10:24 AM
 
Location: Chicago
34,928 posts, read 50,677,740 times
Reputation: 23049
Quote:
Originally Posted by EnjoyEP View Post
Right. Very well stated.

Opinions of course are going to be varied and opinions of all kinds are welcomed. But it is important to differentiate opinions from factual inaccuracies. I mean, I could come on here and state, "I don't like Milwaukee in January because it is far, far too hot"...but just because that would be my opinion it would still be misleading.
Maybe not if you're from, say, Barrow Alaska
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Unread 05-31-2007, 01:10 PM
 
Location: Metro Milwaukee, WI
3,059 posts, read 7,528,990 times
Reputation: 1584
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drover View Post
Maybe not if you're from, say, Barrow Alaska
True, true...
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Unread 06-02-2007, 08:56 AM
 
9 posts, read 23,581 times
Reputation: 13
Of the three, Madison is the closest to the culture of the Twin Cities. I have lived in all of these areas, so think I know what I am talking about. Politics here can drive you crazy though if you listen too much to it. If you like country living, try one of the suburban areas. We live in Marshall, small farm town that is growing. Quiet, safe area with great schools. Good Christian environment. Great place for a family.
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