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I think that is a bit of a stretch. What do you mean "destroys" that of Milwaukee?
I think everyone agrees with you there, but show me where most major cities have great public schools?
The "North Shore" also includes Mequon which has shopping as well and now with Bayshore Mall open the options just got better. You also have a Dicks and Costco in Cedarburg which you do not have anywhere else in the Milw area. Brookfield you do have more shopping but it's not like it's world apart from the North Shore, plus being so close to downtown and the third ward that seals the deal for me.
So there is more to do in Waukesha County? outside of Brookfield there isn't much sorry but there is way more to do in Milwaukee County than Waukesha County. Restaurants, clubs, shopping, fishing, sailing, walking, running trails I think is all better in Milwaukee. About Lake Michigan trust me once you get past the break water on a boat the water turns nice and clear and is safe to swim in and plus I'd rather fish for big fish than little bass and perch. I am an avid boater and you actually wouldn't believe how clean the water is outside the break water. I love the sunrise over the lake, I really like biking from Mequon down to Oak Creek but it takes all day though.
As far as shows? or museums? I think you are wrong on this one. Body Worlds, Andy Warhol, Dead Sea Scrolls, don't come around every year. Even summerfest has different acts every year.
Again? I don't know what you are talking about b/c last year it rarely smelled and if you had a house on beach drive in Fox Point you would see the water in clean and doesn't smell.
As far as taxes Waukesha county is no country county anymore. If you want low taxes in the Milwaukee area you have to go to Ozaukee County.
Waukesha is mostly suburbia that us well off not all rich and wealthy. Either is Milwaukee County but Milwaukee's north shore and Milwaukee has the most expensive homes in the state and has the wealthiest of people. Whitefish Bay will always have more prestige than say Brookfield regardless of what the numbers are, same goes for all of Milwaukee's North shore which includes Mequon. Don't get me wrong I love Waukesha County but let's not make it seem like the Orange County of Milwaukee Metro.
Chicago is also a prime example of this, Chicago's north shore will always have more prestige than say a Barrington Hills even though the house may cost more in BH. Waukesha will in time get more prestigious. But you can drive from edgewood drive in shorewood up to highland road in mequon where mostly every house is above 300K.
In Waukesha County not all of Brookfield or Pewaukee or Oconomowoc is all very upscale, it's scattered and around the lakes but doesn't stretch for miles.
In the end the differences in wealth is suburban wealthy lifestyle compared to a more urban wealthy life style, to each his own. Personally I'd rather have a mansion over looking lake Michigan with my private beach and a yacht I can drive into downtown Milwaukee or Chicago rather than over looking a forest or a small lake.
Now, since I was not able to find the tax income brackets for wisconsin counties the household income distribution charts will have to suffice for now. Clearly in the 200k+/year range both counties are about even. The same can be said about the 150k+ range.
So based upon this data I'm still trying to figure out how you come with the idea that Milwaukee county and the north shore will alway be more prestigious?... Waukesha county has 600k less people and still has just as many earning in the highest tax brackets. The North shore milwaukee is done as far as development goes. However, in lake country their is still a ton of prestigious lake land for sale. Outside of lake country golf courses and nice communities can be built.
You can't just keep a yacht at your house if you live on the lake front. You need to keep it in the Marina so who really cares if you live 20 minutes further out if you are going to spend the day or weekend yachting?
You can't wakeboard or have much fun with any water sports on Lake Michigan for the most part. You can't even really fish. Their are always warnings that you should not eat the fish out of the lake. You can go to some Milwaukee rive spots and their are signs clearly posted warning people to not eat the fish out of the river.
Yes, Milwaukee has a more vibrant night life. It's also easy to travel to. Once again it's not a far drive. I would take a summer outside of Milwaukee rather than a summer within Milwaukee. At least their is better hiking, fishing, bike trails, Ice age trails, camping, power sports, water sports, etc... The north shore is a very aged population and as I said before those are the people the condos downtown are targeting. By 2025 all the real estate experts are predicting a big boom for older people to be moving from urban areas such as the north shore to condos. Theirs a reason why so many companies are trying to get a head start with condos downtown in a weak market. The north shore is going to take a big hit.
Also, you say their are many parts of the wealthy area in waukesha county that also do not have rich people living there...Ummm...So does the north shore. As soon as you drive 2 blocks west of lake drive in shorewood, whitefish bay, glendale, fox point, etc...The big houses are gone. And the further you get away from the lake in these communities the less wealth their is. Nothing is wrong with that, but you just seem to ignore that fact.
I would have hated growing up in the North shore Milwaukee. The best part about childhood is going out in the summer and meeting up with friends to play baseball,football, roller hockey, etc in people's yards. I got to experience great schools, sports, wakeboarding, snowboarding with ski club, four-wheeling, mini bikes(now have two motorcycles, and a ton of other things that I would not have been able to do. I would make a bet that kids in the north shore are more inclined to play video games than go outside and hit a baseball.
However, I did leave out one good part of the northshore...Doctor's park. I really enjoy this place and it's one thing the community can be proud of. Now if the Algae, and the horrible smelling water could be cleaned up it would be that much better. Oh and the buffalo wildwings at bayshore was probably their best move yet. Now they just need to fill up those condos. Last I talked to the information desk in the mall the lady said they weren't even half full. And LA fitness where I work out isn't even at 1/3rd capacity(according to the manager).
So based upon this data I'm still trying to figure out how you come with the idea that Milwaukee county and the north shore will alway be more prestigious?... Waukesha county has 600k less people and still has just as many earning in the highest tax brackets.
"Prestige" is more than just income and money stats. The North Shore has long been the metro area's epicenter for "old money"--the families that are most closely intertwined with the rise and development of Milwaukee; the families that have made the most appearances in the Social Register; the families most connected to the most exclusive country clubs; and the families most closely connected to the University School (the area's most prestigious private secondary school, located in the North Shore) and its ancestors (the former Milwaukee Country Day School, Milwaukee Seminary, etc.).
Does the North Shore have a monopoly on high household or per capita income stats? No, of course not. But it is possible that North Shore residents have a higher average or per capita showing of net worth (wealth, as opposed to income). At least, that's the way it used to be back during Milwaukee's ascent. I wouldn't be surprised if that's still the case. (Perhaps some wealth management firms have public data available regarding client zip codes?)
Does the North Shore have a monopoly on high educational attainment? No, of course not. On the one hand, "old money" people tend not to have advanced degrees. On the other hand, even though other places in the metro area may have a slightly higher educational attainment rate (or even just a college completion rate), it's hard to know where those degrees are from. Perhaps the North Shore has more grads from the Ivies and similarly prestigious schools? It's hard to say and hard to find out.
There are more questions than answers with regard to wealth and education stats, but there's no doubt in my mind that the traditions and infrastructure of the North Shore signal a generally more prestigious community.
""Prestige" is more than just income and money stats. The North Shore has long been the metro area's epicenter for "old money"--the families that are most closely intertwined with the rise and development of Milwaukee; the families that have made the most appearances in the Social Register; the families most connected to the most exclusive country clubs; and the families most closely connected to the University School (the area's most prestigious private secondary school, located in the North Shore) and its ancestors (the former Milwaukee Country Day School, Milwaukee Seminary, etc.).
A few things are wrong with your post. The most exclusive country clubs are not located in Milwaukee County. What Country clubs? And since Waukesha County has an equal amount of wealth with more registered billionaires(5 compared to 1 last I saw) and more presitious homes how do you figure the North Shore has a better social club/scene? Yes maybe their is some prestige next to the lake, but as you get further out it clearly diminishes and unless you live on the lake front their is absolutely no scenery, very close neighbors, and is more flat than Iowa. Take Shorewood for example. Just look at their city data page. It's constantly a town you north shore people like to bring up, but as far as prestige goes...ehhh. Home sale prices have been greatly diminishing and it does not have a top high school among many other things.
Speaking of schools i'm not too sure where you got university school Milwaukee as the most prestigious school...Their is a University Lake school located in Hartland of which I believe is a part of the University School in Milwaukee. Anways it does not matter too much if these smart young people are not choosing Milwaukee as a place to settle down as my last post mentioned. I attend UWM(not a prestigious school by any means), but I seriously do not know one single person who wants to be living anywhere in Milwaukee County after graduation. Some of which have already graduated and left...These are engineers, nurses, financers, accountants, etc...majors. Sure maybe they will commute, but as it stands now only one person I am aware of that has graduated from UWM actually lives in Milwaukee County and that is only because in Finance it's hard to find a job anywhere else right now.
Also, since I did not mention this before as far as I'm aware Per Capita Income is Calculated as a population whole. So for communties such as Whitefish Bay, Bayside, Fox Point, Glendale,Shorewood...well the whole north shore with a very aged population and probably less kids living at home will only help the Per Capita Income. Just compare the Age of the Population in the wealthy communities of the North Shore to that of wealthy waukesha county communities.
Either way though the North Shore will have a tough time surviving in the future with the baby boomers in Urban areas(just outside downtown) wanting more convienence and moving to the Downtown condo Market. Many books/magazines have already been written about it and the down town condo market may seem like a joke now, but it will hurt the north shore and that "prestige" will certainly diminish. Waukesha County with it's many lakes and easy access, sprawling rolling hills and scenery/golf courses, and a younger wealthy population will only become more "prestigious". Also a reason why Dane county and Madison has experienced such growth. Milwaukee County needs to change the way they do business and start caring about the population as a whole...Everyone pays high taxes spread the love.
A few things are wrong with your post. The most exclusive country clubs are not located in Milwaukee County. What Country clubs?
There are several, such as the revered Milwaukee Country Club, located in River Hills. The MCC is the only area club not actively seeking new members. That's pretty exclusive.
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And since Waukesha County has an equal amount of wealth with more registered billionaires(5 compared to 1 last I saw) and more presitious homes how do you figure the North Shore has a better social club/scene?
Since stats on net worth (wealth) are hazy and not widely disclosed, I'd have a hard time believing that figure. Even sociologists and demographers don't have easy access to that info, so I wonder how you got it?
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Yes maybe their is some prestige next to the lake, but as you get further out it clearly diminishes and unless you live on the lake front their is absolutely no scenery, very close neighbors, and is more flat than Iowa. Take Shorewood for example. Just look at their city data page. It's constantly a town you north shore people like to bring up, but as far as prestige goes...ehhh. Home sale prices have been greatly diminishing and it does not have a top high school among many other things.
I don't think anyone would claim that the whole North Shore is blue-blood prestigious; it's pretty much River Hills and the lakeside fringe, with maybe some lakeside Mequon neighborhoods thrown in. The point of wealth and prestige is exclusivity, so of course not everyone in the North Shore will meet the highest standards.
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Speaking of schools i'm not too sure where you got university school Milwaukee as the most prestigious school...Their is a University Lake school located in Hartland of which I believe is a part of the University School in Milwaukee.
Maybe that's true, but the University School--based in River Hills--is still the most prestigious independent school in the metro. There's a reason for that.
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Anways it does not matter too much if these smart young people are not choosing Milwaukee as a place to settle down as my last post mentioned. I attend UWM(not a prestigious school by any means), but I seriously do not know one single person who wants to be living anywhere in Milwaukee County after graduation. Some of which have already graduated and left...These are engineers, nurses, financers, accountants, etc...majors. Sure maybe they will commute, but as it stands now only one person I am aware of that has graduated from UWM actually lives in Milwaukee County and that is only because in Finance it's hard to find a job anywhere else right now.
Take a survey of the rest of the nearly 30,000 students on campus, and you'll find that many hope to remain in Milwaukee County.
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Also, since I did not mention this before as far as I'm aware Per Capita Income is Calculated as a population whole. So for communties such as Whitefish Bay, Bayside, Fox Point, Glendale,Shorewood...well the whole north shore with a very aged population and probably less kids living at home will only help the Per Capita Income. Just compare the Age of the Population in the wealthy communities of the North Shore to that of wealthy waukesha county communities.
So? All the more money for country clubs.
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Either way though the North Shore will have a tough time surviving in the future with the baby boomers in Urban areas(just outside downtown) wanting more convienence and moving to the Downtown condo Market. Many books/magazines have already been written about it and the down town condo market may seem like a joke now, but it will hurt the north shore and that "prestige" will certainly diminish.
The North Shore prestige has diminished since the grand old days of the mid-20th century, but it is still there. Other fringe-city prestige communities in other metros have seen the same thing: the Grosse Pointes in Detroit; the North Shore in Chicago; the Main Line in Philadelphia; Mountain Brook in Birmingham; Hillsborough near San Francisco; and so on and so forth.
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Waukesha County with it's many lakes and easy access, sprawling rolling hills and scenery/golf courses, and a younger wealthy population will only become more "prestigious".
It'll become more "popular," though not necessarily "prestigious."
You can banter back and forth all you want, however, QUIJOTE is absolutely correct in his assessments of the North Shore vs Waukesha County...and I would go further in saying anywhere in Waukesha county...including the ultra wealthy Chenequa.
As a broker...the two of you miss one important point. That is LOCATION, LOCATION, LOCATION.
Any broker will tell you, the closer you are to the population center, the higher the value...AND DESIRABILITY, this holds true ANYWHERE. Most sales will almost always prove this...not always...but most of the time. (the exception being people that must live on a lake).
Waukesha county, and its wealthy communities are simple not as desirable, BY THE MASSES OF PEOPLE BUYING/RELOCATING ETC. as the North Shore...never have been, and never will be. PERIOD!
Furthermore, IMO, as someone who has worked in both high end areas with a whos who in Milwaukee clientele, I can tell you there is a HUGE difference between wealthy people in the North Shore and their Waukesha county counterparts. The people in Waukesha County are not nearly as sophisticated or worldly...must have something to do with old money versus new. Again, this is just my opinion based on my observations...for whatever it is worth. I live in and like Menomonee Falls...and I think its pretty prestigious
I don't know who this other kid is from UWM but i'm also a student there. I personally grew up in the town of Waukesha on over an acre of land, yes having a pool, trampoline, rainbow play gym, and a mini soccer field all in your back yard is nice. However nothing beats living in the city! I'm from Waukesha and my opinion couldn't be any different than yours about staying. I don't think i'll ever be moving back to Waukesha county i love this place! Most of my friends agree. When i get a job out of college i want to stay on the eastside. you can't beat the night life here and how close you are to everything! Its just convenient. When i get older and start a family i would love to live in shorewood! Me and my friends actually talked about it the other day. Most of my friends who grew up in the city seem to want to live in suburbs and most suburb kids seem to want to live in the city. When i have friends visit my hometown and other friends home town in waukesha such as hartland oconomowoc and waukesha they seem to be fascinated with the lifestyle and want to move there. My friends who grew up in the city seem fascinated by the size of our house and how much land we live on. The fact that we can go boating, fourwheeling, swimming and jumping on a trampoline and playing kickball and football on a huge piece of land right in our backyard seems to be what draws them in. What draws us suburb kids to the city is how we can walk places, being so close to so many things downtown and brewers games, and the night life on north/brady/oakland is so appealing other things to me that i like is the fact that i'm not going 10+ miles to get to the nearest grocery store/walmart/bank/conveniance store. 15 minute trip is sometimes less than 5. something to think about.
You can banter back and forth all you want, however, QUIJOTE is absolutely correct in his assessments of the North Shore vs Waukesha County...and I would go further in saying anywhere in Waukesha county...including the ultra wealthy Chenequa.
As a broker...the two of you miss one important point. That is LOCATION, LOCATION, LOCATION.
Any broker will tell you, the closer you are to the population center, the higher the value...AND DESIRABILITY, this holds true ANYWHERE. Most sales will almost always prove this...not always...but most of the time. (the exception being people that must live on a lake).
Waukesha county, and its wealthy communities are simple not as desirable, BY THE MASSES OF PEOPLE BUYING/RELOCATING ETC. as the North Shore...never have been, and never will be. PERIOD!
Furthermore, IMO, as someone who has worked in both high end areas with a whos who in Milwaukee clientele, I can tell you there is a HUGE difference between wealthy people in the North Shore and their Waukesha county counterparts. The people in Waukesha County are not nearly as sophisticated or worldly...must have something to do with old money versus new. Again, this is just my opinion based on my observations...for whatever it is worth. I live in and like Menomonee Falls...and I think its pretty prestigious
This has to be one of the top posts ever on this forum. Excellent job. Agree 100%. Having lived in both places I can see the difference in the feel of the area, the people and the natural and built environment. Waukesha County has a middle to upper middle class consumer superficial feel to it. I do not get the feeling of prestige with the exception of Elm Grove, parts of Brookfield and some areas of Lake country. 80% of the county has no prestige feel to it at all. The citizens of Waukesha Country appear comfortable in the size of their homes and lifestyle, but I see little in the way of sophistication or higher class. In other words ordinary with a higher income. The North Shore ,to me, has a feel and look of sophistication and class. Not all of it, but to a much higher degree than Waukesha County.
Last edited by Allan Trafton; 09-22-2010 at 11:49 AM..
Milwaukee City, quijote, and others, have wrapped this up accurately.
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