Would you use the Downtown Streetcar Circulator (Milwaukee, Bradley: hotels, casino)

[KC3700]

This question hit me while I was reading the light rail thread.

As some of you may know, Mayor Barrett has this plan for a 'Downtown Circulator. This would be 'light rail lite' which would be streetcars operating in a loop along 4th-St. Paul-Van Buren-Juneau back to 4th.

This development in the light rail debate here has thrown me an interesting curve-ball, since I support the idea of a reserved-guideway light rail system. While I support light rail, I think that this Circulator idea is a failure, for the following reasons:

It's too small. The point of light rail is to move people longer distances with shorter travel times. This is a short range system that people could walk the length of. It's too short to be a cost-effective bus route, let alone a streetcar route.

It doesn't use any of the major streets in Downtown. Water, 3rd, Wisconsin, Kilbourn, 6th. This loop doesn't operate on any of these.

It will probably be run by the city and not the county, so Milwaukee County Transit System passes and tickets won't be accepted.

What are your thoughts? Do you think that this system will succeed or fail? Would you use it if it were in place?

[Milwaukee City]

I'm against light rail however, if their going to put it in they might as well do it right! The argument you raise about the stupid route is also my objection. I also agree with you, it doesn't use any of the main streets like Milwaukee Ave, Prospect/farwell, Brady or water or Wisconsin. Again instead of doing it right they will screw it up. This is my fear. Why not have it go north up to North Ave or UWM? Barrett is a douche if he thinks people will ride in a stupid circle that passes no attractions but is a poorly designed route.

[jjacobeclark]

The city can only afford to lay 3 miles of tracks, so that's why it can't go anywhere. Scott Walker hijacked half of our federal money that could have paid for a longer system. The reason it doesn't travel on major streets is because it would interfere with existing car traffic. By running along 4th St, for instance, riders could access MATC, the Bradley Center, Old World 3rd St, and Water St by walking a couple of blocks. I get what the city is trying to do, but personally, I hate the mayor's proposed route. On the website Urban Milwaukee, posters were asked to design their own 3 mile streetcar loop and Transit Idea A was the clear winner. I think it's much better than the mayor's idea and could be expanded at a later date.

Milwaukee Streetcar Map - Google Maps

Transit Idea A - Google Maps

[KC3700]

Originally Posted by jjacobeclark

Scott Walker hijacked half of our federal money that could have paid for a longer system.

Actually, the dividing of the federal money was Barret's idea. He was the one who created the 'end-around' to the stalled debate on the $91.5 mil. It's one of the few good things he's done.

Originally Posted by jjacobeclark

The reason it doesn't travel on major streets is because it would interfere with existing car traffic.

This is why I think that light rail should travel alongside expressways, using a 'dedicated guideway'. This smart proposal was shot down by suburbanites, but it should be broght back, as it is the smartest light rail proposal. All the proposals of incorporating light rail on streets will be a problem, as the light rail vehicles could tie up traffic and vice-versa.

Originally Posted by jjacobeclark

I get what the city is trying to do, but personally, I hate the mayor's proposed route.

Same here. If you look at a map, it is walking distance from all sorts of things, but the route idea is crap.

Originally Posted by jjacobeclark

On the website Urban Milwaukee, posters were asked to design their own 3 mile streetcar loop and Transit Idea A was the clear winner. I think it's much better than the mayor's idea and could be expanded at a later date.

Milwaukee Streetcar Map - Google Maps

Transit Idea A - Google Maps

I agree.

Yes, another thing is that this square loop can't really be added onto - it's a loop. They wouldn't be able to add on to this circulator without making at least 2/3 of it obsolete.

[Avengerfire]

I think light rail can be a good thing in Milwaukee but the route I saw is grossly inadequate. It would pretty much be pointless.

If anything a route connecting downtown (hotels in specific) with the casino,Amtrak station,Greyhound station,Bradley Center,U.S. Cellular Arena,The shops of Grand Ave,Harley Davidson museum,etc. (as well as possibly Miller Park) would be the first line I would lay down.

[Ron Burgundy]

I agree with pretty much everyone here. It's hard for me to ever commit to using it when it doesn't even go anywhere but in circles. Hopefully common sense will prevail. If they only have 3 miles to work with, just connect downtown and the train station. That'll at least get more riders to use it.

Connecting downtown with other attractions as well as connecting lines going north, south, and west would be ideal. Too bad the money that was tied up forever didn't rise with inflation the same as the cost of building the infrastructure did.