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I would say this about Minneapolis. It is probably no more racist than most places in the USA. Whatever racism that exists in Minneapolis, is more of a national problem.
What I was saying is that if there are any culture issues with African-Americans, part of it has to do with how African-Americans got here, how they were treated, and other events in American history. I wasn't saying the situation was hopeless. I'm saying it's a different narrative. How to handle that narrative productively is another matter. Making fun of Black American kids who strive for education, here's where it came from: During the 60's and 70's, the schools were being integrated and some of the Black students were being put into advanced classes with White kids and many Black students were being put in lower level classes. Some friendships were broken up over it. Some of the Black students in lower level classes would make fun of the Black students saying that they "acted White". I don't see this behavior among African immigrants or Asian immigrants. I say a different narrative has something to do with it.
The second statement, well, I don't know what the bailout has to do with this, but Whites make up a larger number of persons on welfare than anyone else. And between either group, the majority of persons are not on welfare. The way I see it, the persons who behave the most dysfunctional often ban together more than those who behave decently or who strive for success.
Part of my point I was trying to drive home is that class might play a part, but race plays more of a part than many people would believe. It is easy to tell between a Black person who has a "hood" attitude, and Black person who is about pride, respect, and behaves decently. However, when you have a Black person and a White person of the same class, that is when things can happen. Race is often intertwined with class.
I strongly recommend you live or at least visit a black republic (not a tourist resort either) at some point in your life, it will be an eye opening event for you. In Jamaica, Dominican Republic. Haiti, Venezuela, et al there's no white man to blame, when you ask why they're broke and impoverished they say "because we're poor", not "because we're black". I lived in the Dominican Republic for 6+ years where everyone is some shade of black. The President is black, senators are black, owner of the supermarket, car wash, movie theater, bus company, etc etc all black. They're not hiring guys in "hoodies" , corn rows & saggy pants, no way, no how and you know why not? They associate that look & attitude with poverty, crime & lack of education. Are those successful black business people racists? You think the Manager of the bank in Jamaica hires dread-lock Rastas to work the teller windows? Nope, because they see them as low class. When the black cops roll down the streets guess who they grab and interrogate? Those same guys. Are they racists too? Ask those black Caribbean folks about racism or slavery and they say "what does that have to do with me, that was 300 years ago.". It's really JUST the USA where we've decided to hang on to slavery and use it as an excuse for failing.
I strongly recommend you live or at least visit a black republic (not a tourist resort either) at some point in your life, it will be an eye opening event for you. In Jamaica, Dominican Republic. Haiti, Venezuela, et al there's no white man to blame, when you ask why they're broke and impoverished they say "because we're poor", not "because we're black". I lived in the Dominican Republic for 6+ years where everyone is some shade of black. The President is black, senators are black, owner of the supermarket, car wash, movie theater, bus company, etc etc all black. They're not hiring guys in "hoodies" , corn rows & saggy pants, no way, no how and you know why not? They associate that look & attitude with poverty, crime & lack of education. Are those successful black business people racists? You think the Manager of the bank in Jamaica hires dread-lock Rastas to work the teller windows? Nope, because they see them as low class. When the black cops roll down the streets guess who they grab and interrogate? Those same guys. Are they racists too? Ask those black Caribbean folks about racism or slavery and they say "what does that have to do with me, that was 300 years ago.". It's really JUST the USA where we've decided to hang on to slavery and use it as an excuse for failing.
I wasn't talking about those nation. I was talking about what goes on in the USA, Minneapolis, Atlanta, NYC, etc. I'm talking about HERE. What goes on down there is different. The USA might have started out similar, but ended up much more different than those other nations you speak of. The USA as a narrative is far different.
And it's interesting you mentioned the Dominican Republic. Ever here of the "Parsley Masacre". Former dictator Rafael Trujillo had about 30,000 persons of Haitian descent murdered to "get the African out of the Dominican bloodline". There is racism in the DR, it is more about the color continuum. In the DR, the lighter you are, the better you have it. The President has very light skin.
I wasn't saying that. I was asking differentiating between the narrative of African-Americans and Vietnamese immigrants, or immigrants in general. My question still stands, if African-Americans were to immigrate to another nation, would they do the same thing in another nation that immigrants do here as far as striving for success?
But why should I think according to those terms. If someone is going to prejudge me based on looking at me, then how is that going to help ME? I am not saying I would ever dress like a "hoodrat" because I don't dress like that. However, there have been experiences in my life that have taught me that not dressing like a "hood rat" won't keep me from being pre-judged. Here is an example of one event that happened to me. I don't have a car, and I don't know that many Catholics who go to my parish. For this reason, I often walk to church(if my bicycle is working I will ride a bike). I was walking back from church, dressed in a dress shirt and dress pants. I also had an umbrella open to block my head from the sun. It didn't matter to one particular woman driving by. As a side note, I keep my eyes peeled because two things could happen.
A) I could get hit by a car(which has never happened ). There are no sidewalks on this road, so walking is risky.
B) Someone might be kind enough to give me a lift home(which has happened).
A woman was riding in the car with her husband. She drove past me but not before seeing me. She locked the door right after. I could tell because I heard the lock from outside. What made it feel ironic was seeing a bumper sticker on the back of the van, depicting the name of a Catholic parish. Now, I don't know what was going on in her mind, but when someone sees me, and then locks the car door, what goes through my mind is "said person is afraid of me". I don't know why this particular woman locked the car door. As I walked home, I was thinking race could have played a part, because I wasn't dressed like a "hood rat". To say the least I was kind of hurt because I am thinking "I just came from morning Mass, she was probably in the same church as me, and she views me as someone to be afraid of".
You might hire that man in a minute, but there are many other people who only see his race. There are still people like that out there.
As for prejudging, I am aware that people prejudge, this is part of the reason I get so angry, because this is nothing new. People have been doing this forever.
I have to run out so I cannot address all your points now. BUT. I'm prejudged all the time if I have sloppy clothes or for that matter dressed in a suit. If I shave or look scruffy I am prejudged with less quality service. My daughter gets treated poorly by servers because they assume she won't tip well. Occasionally I notice that women will feel uncomfortable while I'm walking down the street if it's night time simply because I am a male. So yes, I know what you are talking about to a lesser degree. It happens. As I said, people pre-judge NON stop.
I have to run out so I cannot address all your points now. BUT. I'm prejudged all the time if I have sloppy clothes or for that matter dressed in a suit. If I shave or look scruffy I am prejudged with less quality service. My daughter gets treated poorly by servers because they assume she won't tip well. Occasionally I notice that women will feel uncomfortable while I'm walking down the street if it's night time simply because I am a male. So yes, I know what you are talking about to a lesser degree. It happens. As I said, people pre-judge NON stop.
People do prejudge alot, I agree with you there. That's why I get upset. For me as an African-American, it's more personal because the way I look at it, it isn't 1950, this is 2011. For me, the history of it is nothing new, the year, however, is.
I definitely agree. There's still a lot of not-so-great people out there who openly discriminate and many of the rest who hold prejudiced attitudes, even if they're hidden under the surface.
That said, I think it's slowly getting better. Painfully slow. But progress none-the-less.
Progress, perhaps, but the fact is that it's slow.
I agree. Today's black culture promotes failure. It sets people -- especially young people -- up to fail economically and socially. Slavery is not an excuse, because it ended over 145 years ago. No one who was alive in 1865 is still breathing today. The issue of black slavery in America is dead, and has been for decades. You can't blame institutional racism either, because affirmative action and diversity programs have erased its effects over the past 40 years. You have to blame the cause of the problem, which is the deep culture of inferiority and failure found in the black community, along with the rampant epidemic of fatherlessness in black families.
Black culture glorifies crime, prison, poverty, superficial wealth and failure, instead of education, righteousness and financial stability -- what most would consider to be "success." I don't know if "MN_born_and-raised" has a different definition of success, but I define the word as having the ability to support yourself and your family through legal means and without outside help. In my opinion, You don't need to be rich or have a Ph.D. or work a high-pressure job to be successful, but you need to be able to put food on the table and pay your bills without help from Uncle Sam, your parents or criminal activity. Sadly, many blacks don't meet those standards of success, and instead of looking inwardly and motivating themselves they concoct boogeymen such as slavery, racism or "the white man."
I am not denying that there are issues that are affecting the African-American community, that are coming from with in. With that said, I disagree that institutional racism has disappeared. Rather, I think it has just taken on a different form. If you look at the statistics for affirmative action, White females benefit from it more than anyone else. And some universities have put a ban on affirmative action. One of them is the University of Michigan. However, University of Michigan kept its other preferential treatment deal. University of Michigan gives preferential treatment to applicants from the Upper Peninsula of Michigan. Demographically, alot fewer racial minorities in the UP compared to Detroit or Grand Rapids. I am saying institutional racism still occurs, it isn't as blatant though. Black job applicants are more likely to be turned down for jobs than White job applicants even with both applicants have a college degree and the same experience. I am not talking about the Black people who sit around and do nothing. I am aware that lack of education will indeed jeopardize your chances of succedding in the world. I am talking about the Black people who actually do get a decent education, who do act right. Statistically, a White job applicant who has dropped out of high school is more likely to be given a job than a Black job applicant with a high school degree. If affirmative action and diversity programs were really solving the problem, then why are African-American college graduates more likely to be unemployed than White college graduates? If it was a culture of poverty and underachieving, then said African-American college graduates wouldn't be college graduates if that were the case.
What you are seeing in Black culture is only a small part of it. Rather, the positive aspects are not blasting over the airwaves like thug culture is. Hip-hop for instance. Why is it that Rev. Run or Dead Prez make less money or get less airwave play that Li'l Wayne,50 cent, or T.I.? Acting "hard" is what sells. And this isn't just with Blacks either. It's about the money. People make money off of buffoonery and stupidity. You have people like Neil Degrasse Tyson, Cornell West, Tavis Smiley, etc. They are a part of African-American culture. The Cosby Show is part of African-American culture, and loved by both Blacks and Whites. However, today, everything is about money.
Something else. In 1970, there were more fathers at home than now. This is happening across the board. This is affecting African-Americans more. I don't think that has anything to do with institutional racism. I think this is happening across the board.
I am not saying "blame the white man". I am saying institutional racism still happens in the USA today despite affirmative action and diversity programs. There is information to back this up. I am not denying that the bad aspects of African-American culture are playing a factor. I am saying that it isn't as simple as it looks.
My question still stands, if African-Americans were to immigrate to another nation, would they do the same thing in another nation that immigrants do here as far as striving for success?
It depends on the person and family. I propose that if an African-American family is doing well in the USA then they will also do well in (fill in the blank) country. If people grew up being co-dependent on the system, then chances are they will lack the tools and energy to strive for success no matter where they land. Of course there are exceptions to the rule.
The same goes for a hillbilly in Virginia. On average their culture could be too deep in the hole to climb out. Or for that matter the Hmong community in Columbia Heights. So they could be black, white or yellow. Our lovely welfare system has made it so you can blow off education and the need to be professional and driven. After all you still can eat, have free medicine, and free shelter without working all that hard. It's not a glorious life and people DO want to climb the ladder but the system enable them to be lazy. If you had to perform or starve, I predict out of wedlock pregnancies would be down an order of magnitude long term and families would be forced to stay and work together. That's how rich kids get messed up. They don't have to work and they get things for free.
I don't dispute that there is something to what you are saying. But I think you have to drop what happened 200 years ago. By now it's insignificant to most white Minnesotans. IMHO "helping" able bodied people does not mean taking care of them. The fact the the government screwed up so many people by trying to "help" them is disheartening.
I think that the overwhelming majority of white people from MN will prejudge an articulate African-American that dresses well just like they prejudge a white articulate White American. For example, I was impressed with the African-American that I met on that rental car bus. Yet I didn't say a word to the white guy who sat next to me on MTC bus that same day. He was counting $1 bills. I prejudged him to be a beggar. Yet with my conversations with the Black man, there is no doubt he was more successful than me and I enjoyed the conversation because he was interesting. He talked about the 2nd home that he bought in Scottsdale. How his parents loved to visit his new toy. I saw joy in his eyes as he was explaining how his family was going to spend time swimming in their pool and looking at the most gorgeous sunsets that he has ever seen. What a neat guy!
So in summary there will be Blacks that will hate me for being White and there will be Whites who hate you for being Black. They are both equal ignorant.
There is racism in the DR, it is more about the color continuum. In the DR, the lighter you are, the better you have it. The President has very light skin.
I use to have a house on the beach in Mexico. Same drill. The Mexicans with lighter skin (more European descent) were in power. People with money are never to marry outside of their class. The bald Mexicans run the show (again more Spanish blood than indigenous blood). I cannot say that about the USA as people date outside of their economic class all the time. Just ask the Arnold Schwarzenegger.
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). There are no sidewalks on this road, so walking is risky.
