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Old 07-27-2010, 09:49 AM
 
Location: An overgrown 350K person suburb of Saint Paul
383 posts, read 500,677 times
Reputation: 233
Quote:
Originally Posted by gearedtowardssalad View Post
"Native Anglophonic"?
You do know that Native Americans spoke their own languages, right?
Yeah, and now they speak English. Fail.

 
Old 07-27-2010, 09:53 AM
 
Location: An overgrown 350K person suburb of Saint Paul
383 posts, read 500,677 times
Reputation: 233
Jamaica is an English only country. I betcha they're full of eevul racist white neocons!
 
Old 07-27-2010, 10:00 AM
 
Location: Minneapolis, MN
4,926 posts, read 8,148,837 times
Reputation: 1629
Not surprisingly, it passed...

Star Tribune - Lino Lakes approves English-only resolution
http://www.startribune.com/local/nor...3aPc:_Yyc:aUUJ
 
Old 07-27-2010, 10:02 AM
 
3,637 posts, read 2,814,111 times
Reputation: 2424
Quote:
Originally Posted by srsmn View Post
There is an old story in political science (not sure exactly how true it is...) that every presidential candidate of the past 50+ years that surveyed, voting-age women found more attractive has ended up winning the general election...

....let's hope the same holds true for men's preferences in the Bachmann/Clark race, because if it does.....well, Michelle don't stand a chance against that hot tamale!

Also, I think Bachmann's a little bit more shock and awe and a little less substance than Franken, though I agree that they are both guilty of it some times. Big point is that a little flare in a politician is never a bad thing, if they can back it up....

You cannot fully blame the voters in the northern Burb's for Bachmann. Last time the Dem's gave us Patty Wetterling. While my heart goes out to her, she didn't have a clue.

Same goes for Franken. Coleman was found to be a crook and I could not vote for a crook. I voted for Dean.
 
Old 07-27-2010, 10:44 AM
 
2,031 posts, read 1,199,404 times
Reputation: 1356
Quote:
Originally Posted by golfgal View Post
I never said it was easy for them but they TRIED. I think if you go back in history you will find that you are wrong and new immigrants DID try to learn English, without the help of English as a Second Language classes, mind you. No one said it was easy and no, many adults were not fluent but they TRIED. They also encouraged their children to only speak English outside of the home. Do I have proof, yes, ask any adult living today or any child of an immigrant that came over before say 1970 how hard they tried to learn English. Now, go visit some of the adult ESL classes and see which groups are trying and which are not. Some are, some are not.
So you have some amazing way of knowing that they all tried? The tens of millions of immigrants in the great 19th and early 20th waves of immigration from Europe all tried?

Care to explain the widespread prevalence of German- (and other on-English European) language newspapers in the United States in the past? Or all the education of children in schools in which the language of education was German? Sending your children to a German-teaching school is most certainly not "encouraging your children to speak only English outside of the home". Or the numbers of people listed in historical census figures who were born in the United States and were monolingual speakers of German?

From UW-Madison professor of German linguistics, Joseph Salmons - 'Good old immigrants of yesteryear' who didn't learn English: Germans in Wisconsin., published in American Speech:
UW-Madison: Creating Community: Study debunks myth that early immigrants quickly learned English (http://www.diversity.wisc.edu/15801 - broken link)

[excerpts from the article about the study]
One of the richest quantitative sources for the study came from the 1910 U.S. Census, which is digitized and available through the Wisconsin Historical Society. Wilkerson analyzed self-reports on the languages adults spoke in areas of heavy German settlement, which included nine townships in seven counties across southeastern and central Wisconsin.

Examples include the communities of Hustisford in Dodge County; Hamburg in Marathon County; Kiel in Manitowoc County; Germantown in Washington County; and Belgium in Ozaukee County.

In 1910, the researchers still found robust populations of German-only speakers in these communities. The census identified 24 percent German-only speakers in Hustisford, 22 percent in Schleswig (Manitowoc County), 21 percent in Hamburg and 18 percent in Kiel.

These numbers did not only represent first-generation immigrants, but included many born in the United States. Of the self-reported German-only speakers in the census, 43 percent from Germantown were born in the U.S., followed by 36 percent in Schleswig, 35 percent in Hustisford and 34 percent in Brothertown (Calumet County).

- - - - - - - -

Salmons points to other straightforward evidence of how viable the German language remained in Wisconsin. Through state history, there were more than 500 German-language newspapers published in Wisconsin. Those small-town papers often consolidated into larger-circulation papers in the 20th century and remained commercially available into the 1940s.

- - - - - - - -

A 1932 paper on 19th century immigration to northern Milwaukee stated that "English was not even necessary for their day-to-day interactions. Every person they came in contact with could speak German at least as well as English. In Ozaukee County, there is evidence that the Irish families who lived scattered among the Germans could speak German."

- - - - - - - -

* The researchers found correspondence in the 1890s from school districts to the office of the state school superintendent that were written entirely in German. This is after the Bennett law of 1889 that required schools to be taught in English.

* They also found records in a UW-Madison dissertation about Lebanon, Wis., from a Lutheran church in the community that was "introducing one sermon each month in English, on a trial basis." That decision was made in 1929.

Keep in mind some of the dates listed above - they are in many cases long after the end of the last long great wave of German immigration to the United States, which began in the 1820s and ended when World War I began.

These aren't anecdotal claims (which I see you touting above as 'proof') but historical records. The idea that your (and my) ancestral immigrants from Europe were somehow better at and/or more committed to acquisition of English is simply a myth. And it flies in the face of all the evidence that we have.
 
Old 07-27-2010, 10:46 AM
 
Location: MINNESOTA
1,178 posts, read 1,378,319 times
Reputation: 433
My hometown had an all German newspaper up until after WWII
 
Old 07-27-2010, 10:53 AM
 
2,031 posts, read 1,199,404 times
Reputation: 1356
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kid Cann View Post
My hometown had an all German newspaper up until after WWII
The second house I purchased (in Northfield in 1998) had an attached sort of shed on the back side of it. Inside this area where some high rafters, and when cleaning through a scattered mess of boxes and papers there I found, among other things, several stacks of German-language newspapers from the 1930s, published in a city in Iowa (I forget which one). They looked like any other newspapers, with articles and ads in German - except for the fact that the heading print was in a gothic sort of script. There was clearly a local market for this sort of newspaper at that time and place.
 
Old 07-27-2010, 12:16 PM
 
20,805 posts, read 29,282,063 times
Reputation: 9768
So they spoke both German AND English, big deal. They certainly did NOT expect the rest of the world to speak German, do all of their business in German, have translators provided for free, have signs made up all over the place. I am sorry but the majority of the people in the US speak English and again, the movement toward rule by the minority is NOT a good thing-just ask Iraq or Iran how that is working out for them?
 
Old 07-27-2010, 12:33 PM
 
2,031 posts, read 1,199,404 times
Reputation: 1356
Quote:
Originally Posted by golfgal View Post
So they spoke both German AND English, big deal. They certainly did NOT expect the rest of the world to speak German, do all of their business in German, have translators provided for free, have signs made up all over the place. I am sorry but the majority of the people in the US speak English and again, the movement toward rule by the minority is NOT a good thing-just ask Iraq or Iran how that is working out for them?
You insist on ignoring the fact that large segments of German communities spoke only German. So, I repeat (from the study in my previous post):

In 1910, the researchers still found robust populations of German-only speakers in these communities. The census identified 24 percent German-only speakers in Hustisford, 22 percent in Schleswig (Manitowoc County), 21 percent in Hamburg and 18 percent in Kiel.

Note the "German-only speakers".

These numbers did not only represent first-generation immigrants, but included many born in the United States. Of the self-reported German-only speakers in the census, 43 percent from Germantown were born in the U.S., followed by 36 percent in Schleswig, 35 percent in Hustisford and 34 percent in Brothertown (Calumet County).

Note again the "German-only speakers", and please note that significant percentages of them weren't immigrants but were born in the United States.

You claim bilinguality among immigrants of the past, but the 1890 census indicates that 20% of residents of Milwaukee spoke no English.

Also, you're moving the goalposts. You previously claimed that immigrants did everything they could to see that their children spoke only English outside of the home. Now you're saying "So they were bilingual, big deal". The deal, big or not, is that you claimed something else. So I'll ask again - how does sending children to bilingual schools jibe with your claim?

The German-Americans-Chapter Seven

[excerpts]
Some public and many private parochial schools taught exclusively in German throughout many decades, mostly in rural areas.

While four out of five children of German-American families were enrolled in a private (meaning German-language) school in 1860, in 1880 four out of five such children were enrolled in a public bilingual school.
 
Old 07-27-2010, 12:36 PM
 
2,031 posts, read 1,199,404 times
Reputation: 1356
Quote:
Originally Posted by golfgal View Post
So they spoke both German AND English, big deal. They certainly did NOT expect the rest of the world to speak German, do all of their business in German, have translators provided for free, have signs made up all over the place. I am sorry but the majority of the people in the US speak English and again, the movement toward rule by the minority is NOT a good thing-just ask Iraq or Iran how that is working out for them?
Oh, and as for "rule by the minority", please. Give us a break. No one is demanding that the United States be "ruled by the minority". No one is demanding that non-English speaking immigrants rule us. There is nothing - nothing - about offering bilingual services that is even remotely anything like life under despotic Middle Eastern regimes.
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