Minneapolis/ St. Paul Traffic (Eagan, Woodbury: environment, budget, debt)

[Isaysos]

As many of you may have heard, new reports show Minnesota (Minneapolis/St.Paul) traffic is now the second worse in the nation and we will have to construct tons of extra freeway lanes just to keep up with growth. I say, it does not have to be that way. The twin cities suburbs sprawl into infinitie just because we hold our mc mansions and large isolated yards so deer. Is it worth putting up with the traffic? Why is everyone so afraid to move to the actual city (granted its more expensive) but think about the savings on gas. If our suburbs keep growing and growing forever no one is going to be able to get anwhere any more and the Twin Cities region is turning into a traffic congested, subdivided crap hole. I know that people feel they must "keep up with the Jonses" with their big house and huge SUV and go into massive amounts of debt. (not to mention the trend for gas is always up) Am I the only one that feels to continue to grow this way is dumb? Im not a hippie, im just thinking logically that our suburban growth makes no sense and makes our quality of life worse than it would be if we planned like the orgional twin cities were. (street cars, denser neighborhoods with stores and shops) What do you think?

[yellowsnow]

In a perfect world we would all live next door to work, in high density housing and not even own a car. But for most of us, it doesn't work out that way. People love their houses, vehicles, and freedom of choice. But they won't want to pay for those freeways either. Over time, the paradigm will shift and even now, it's becoming more desirable to live in the cities.

The SUV isn't going to be leaving Minnesota any time soon. About 1/2 the year the weather is bad and people feel safer driving large 4WD vehicles. Driving an SUV here is much different than driving one in Southern California. Also, people here have toys. They have to be able to tow their boats, campers, ATVs, and snowmobiles. People don't want to give up these things. There won't be room for all these toys in the condo either.

Many Minnesotans like to live in suburbia or even semirural settings. They like the outdoors. They also hear about rampant crime in the Cities on a daily basis. They want their kids to be safe and able to play outdoors. People will pay a lot for the safety of their families. And sacrifice a lot of their free time commuting. They want their kids to attend suburban schools that are perceived to be superior to their urban counterparts.

I think it's safe to say most Minnesotans don't want to live in NYC. If they wanted to live in a city that urban.....they would have already moved there. People don't want MSP to turn into NYC.

[TimtheGuy]

Originally Posted by Isaysos

As many of you may have heard, new reports show Minnesota (Minneapolis/St.Paul) traffic is now the second worse in the nation and we will have to construct tons of extra freeway lanes just to keep up with growth. I say, it does not have to be that way. The twin cities suburbs sprawl into infinitie just because we hold our mc mansions and large isolated yards so deer. Is it worth putting up with the traffic? Why is everyone so afraid to move to the actual city (granted its more expensive) but think about the savings on gas. If our suburbs keep growing and growing forever no one is going to be able to get anwhere any more and the Twin Cities region is turning into a traffic congested, subdivided crap hole. I know that people feel they must "keep up with the Jonses" with their big house and huge SUV and go into massive amounts of debt. (not to mention the trend for gas is always up) Am I the only one that feels to continue to grow this way is dumb? Im not a hippie, im just thinking logically that our suburban growth makes no sense and makes our quality of life worse than it would be if we planned like the orgional twin cities were. (street cars, denser neighborhoods with stores and shops) What do you think?

First, I don't believe the report that we are 2nd worst in the US for traffic. Secondly, I live in an outer suburb (Hastings) and think traffic on our side of the cities (SE) is not a problem at all. My wife commutes to downtown St. Paul and I commute to Rosemount. Driving from Hastings to the airport, MOM, St. Paul and anywhere East of 35E (Eagan, St. Paul, Oakdale, Woodbury, Stillwater) is a breeze.

Why would I move to 'the city'????

[punkerdunker]

I also have not heard that our traffic congestion is almost leading the nation ; I would be very surprised if that were true. That said, the issues you raise about lifestyle and where we choose to live should be a big concern to all of us.

The suburban lifestyle was made possible by the abundant availability of fossil fuel and automobiles. It seems pretty clear by now that our environment and our budgets will not be able to sustain even the current level of vehicle-miles being driven throughout the country. World-wide oil production has most likely already peaked, which means we will always have less oil available each year than we did the year before. If you think we will be able to "keep a lid on gas prices" without using much less of it, you're wrong.

With the population continuing to grow here and in the whole U.S., its undeniable that we will need to start doing things differently, and doing things "greener" and more locally. If we don't, suburbia as we know it could collapse.

That's my doomsday post for today

[golfgal]

There is no WAY the Twin Cities traffic is even in the top 10 for metro areas across the nation. Boston, New York, Los Angeles, St. Louis and many other places are MUCH worse then the Twin Cities even on it's worst days.

I for one work a mile from my home. If I moved to the "city" I would have to drive 20 miles each way to get to work. My Dh's commute would be about the same if we moved to the "city". We are not in debt, we have a comfortable size house, and we don't drive a huge SUV.

Did you know that Marshall ranks #2 in the NATION for SUV/Truck owners? Being a former Marshall resident I can say that is very accurate. If you commute around the Twin Cities, maybe 20% of the vehicles are large SUV's. Most commuters drive a sedan.

[Isaysos]

Punkerdunker, I agree with you that energy is running out and we are very unsustainable in our planning practices in the U.S. Golfgirl, yes I am currently in Marshall right now and it makes me sick to see all of the Hummers and trucks around there. I guess to some people having big yards, vehicles, and boats in suburban neighborhoods is more important to them than all of the time they spend in traffic, the environment, and their childrens future. I know many people that drive 2 hours plus a day in traffic, I guess some people just love to drive.

[rcsteiner]

Originally Posted by Isaysos

As many of you may have heard, new reports show Minnesota (Minneapolis/St.Paul) traffic is now the second worse in the nation

The report I've seen was about interstates specifically -- it doesn't address the congestion present on other roads/freeways or congestion in the metro area in general.

Keep in mind that the Twin Cities, with its general grid layout, is a much easier place to commute (in my experience, anyway) than someplace like Atlanta where roads seem to have been built haphazardly, and where there is often no viable alternative at all besides the main artery when going from point A to point B. That's why I-75 NW of Atlanta is a parking lot even though it's several lanes in each direction (and why they're prposing to widen it to 23 [yes, 23!] lanes).

Will 23 lanes be enough

[robind]

I currently live in Seattle. Traffic here is BAD. Our morning rush hour starts at 5am and ends at 11am. When I say starts at 5am I mean by that time roads are already clogged. Evening is even worse.

We've been researching the country to find a new place to live. We want good schools, a tech job market, outdoor lifestyle and decent traffic. (Minneapolis area has it all)

Minneapolis has decent traffic. Perhaps it is all about what you are used to. People from Boston and Southern California think Seattle is bad. Seattle natives don't understand that this is bad.

I've been reviewing traffic stats and traffic cams from all over the country. Sure you have your trouble spots but I'll take Minneapolis any day. Can't wait to move there. 25 below wind chill - sounds great! (I can buy a parka) I'll take that over 4 hours a day commmuting to and from work.

[SlyFrog]

Originally Posted by robind

I currently live in Seattle. Traffic here is BAD. Our morning rush hour starts at 5am and ends at 11am. When I say starts at 5am I mean by that time roads are already clogged. Evening is even worse.

We've been researching the country to find a new place to live. We want good schools, a tech job market, outdoor lifestyle and decent traffic. (Minneapolis area has it all)

Minneapolis has decent traffic. Perhaps it is all about what you are used to. People from Boston and Southern California think Seattle is bad. Seattle natives don't understand that this is bad.

I've been reviewing traffic stats and traffic cams from all over the country. Sure you have your trouble spots but I'll take Minneapolis any day. Can't wait to move there. 25 below wind chill - sounds great! (I can buy a parka) I'll take that over 4 hours a day commmuting to and from work.

Traffic was great 10 years ago. Before everyone moved here, and the infrastructure was left in the state it was in 20 years ago.

Come back to us in 5-10 years, and let us know what you think of the state's policy of continuing to serve southern and western populations that are doubling in size every so many years with two lane highways across bridge bottlenecks.

I think Minneapolis traffic is okay (but not great) right now. Based on what I have seen over the past 10 years, and what I see being done to expand capacity for the future, I'm worried as hell at what it is going to be like in the future.

[Ben Around]

Originally Posted by yellowsnow

I think it's safe to say most Minnesotans don't want to live in NYC. If they wanted to live in a city that urban.....they would have already moved there. People don't want MSP to turn into NYC.

So there's only two choices, NYC or Sprawlville? Wow!! We are in trouble!!