minneapolis vs. chicago

[AQUEMINI331]

Originally Posted by BarbaraMN

I'm not from Minneapolis or Chicago but I've lived in both for about nine years each. I greatly prefer Minneapolis. Chicago was fun as a single person whose main focus was on entertainment--but now that I'm a full-fledged adult I think Minneapolis has more to offer for all stages of life. In hindsight, I think I would have been happier in Minneapolis even in my early 20s, but of course I couldn't see that (or admit it) then.

I grew up in Pittsburgh, PA and I don't think I ever saw what it is really like until I went home as an adult to evaluate possibly living there again; perceptions are strongly colored by childhood. You experience a city much differently when you're not under the umbrella of your childhood. For example, your memories of a childhood Minnesota winter may be as extremely long/cold, lacking sunlight and frequent school cancellations due to extreme cold--when in reality you only missed a day or two and the weather wasn't nearly as crazy as you think. Hope that makes some sense.

As for which city is better the answer is definitely both. It just depends on who you are and what you want from your city.

Yeah i agree. I can understand youngurbanprofessional's perspective - Chicago is a excellent city for nightlife, entertainment, and just the general fast-paced lifestyle that most 20-somethings crave. But I live here and I can come up with a long list of things about Chicago that suck (I don't hate this city, actually I like it a lot I'm just saying it's not perfect and no place is).


But in any case, it's not like the Twin Cities are small towns. Minneapolis alone is about the size of Atlanta; St. Paul alone is about the size of Milwaukee. Combined that's a metropolitan area of 3 million people. Even Milwaukee has sh*t to do that will keep you occupied - surely the TC offer the same. Like you said BarbaraMN, it's all about your personal preference and life circumstances. One size does NOT fit all, and rarely (if ever) does. That's just life in general. That's why threads like Minneapoils versus Chicago are so stupid. They assume that one size DOES fit all, and that one city (or car, or brand of toilet paper, or whatever's being compared) is universally better than the other, when the truth of the matter is that some will prefer one option, and others will prefer the other option. And yet others will prefer neither. In this case, many people will not opt for either Minneapolis or Chicago, maybe because they find both cities' to be too cold or something like that. It's all about personal preference.


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[powerfulpup]

Personally, having done both... where am I now? MSP. The one image of Chicago I can't get out of my mind is how much garbage was floating in the river. Bleh. Okay, granted, there is lots to do in Chicago. It is all about what you want. Both cities have plenty of fun places, both offer nightlife, both have crime, both have affluence, both have everything. MSP has everything Chicago does, but it is smaller. Quality, not quanity, is what I look for in a home.

I like the people around here. Personally, I have not spoken (much less seen) a person I graduated with in years, except when I randomly bump into someone on visits home. So I would disagree that we are "clicky", or at least no more so than anywhere else in the world. And I like to drive. Public transporation may be nice, may be cheap, but I sure like having my own vehicle and getting to go where I want, when I want. Again, it what you want.

Since I'm from around here I get MSP press, and it seems to win a lot of awards as a good place to live. I'm sure Chicago get awards too, we just don't hear about it up here.

So its really up to what you, or anyone reading this, wants. Both have their perks, both are similar, but I prefer MSP.

[youngurbanprofessional]

I agree with you guys that Chicago and TC areas are different and fit the person better to their personal preference. They ARE different though, in many ways. I'm not saying Chicago is BETTER than Minneapolis, I'm saying there's more to offer younger single people.

In many of your posts you agreed to this, but then went on to say that Minneapolis offers everything Chicago does.

This is not true. Having lived in both, I have taken advantage of opportunities that are simply not available in Minneapolis. Many of you are saying that minneapolis has more to offer? like what? you haven't listed a single thing you can get in minneapolis that you can't get in Chicago

Here's what I've been able to do in Chicago that I could not get in Minneapolis:

1. Joined a local mens recreational baseball league. This is not available in the Twin Cities area, nor many of the country's metro areas. You'd have to join an amatuer town league, which isn't recreational, and you have to live in that town in most cases.

2. I've played many other various sports leagues, there are a TON of them for any sport you can think of, they have at least a couple leagues for it, and conveniently located as well. There's softball and some hockey leagues in Minnesota that are maybe on the same scale of teams/leagues, but everything else there's WAY more opportunity in Chicago. It is one of the largest park districts in the world, Minneapolis can't compete with that simply because of it's size. You can argue for the metro area, but then Chicago's metro area is much much larger than the Twin Cities.

3. Landed a job at a fortune 500 company. There are only 7 headquarted in Minnesota, 8 total located there. I couldn't get a job at a small 10 person company, there were over 50 applicants for an entry level job. The job opportunities do not come EVEN CLOSE to Chicago, no matter what you do.

4. Meet various, different, young poeple. Minnesota is mostly minnesotans. Young people who are from there. Minnesotans are much more cliquey. They have their friends from high school/college and they are very close to the friends in their group. They are NOT, however, as accepting of newer people to their social groups. They are nice to people, but not as accepting socially. Chicago is much more open. More people from different areas, many new to the city, it's like second college, meet new people ALL THE TIME, it never stops here.

5. Public transportation. Minneapolis doesn't come close to Chicago, but if you live in Minneapolis, you need a car. I've been in Chicago for 3 years without a vehicle and gotten by wonderfully and saved a ton of money.

6. Public events. Chicago is bigger, more events, more history and culture exists here. Minneapolis has events too, and culture, and some history, but not nearly on the scale of Chicago's. Again, the size, it's not there, Chicago has been around longer and has more culture.

If you aren't young, have kids, are married, have a steady job, then none of this matters. For a young single adult, it does matter, and Minneapolis doesn't have the opportunities in the same volume and range. I'm sorry, Chicago is not better than Minneapolis, and Minneapolis is not better than Chicago, but Chicago has more to offer, you simply can't do everything in Minneapolis that you could have the opportunities for in Chicago. It just doesn't come close.

[akronbball]

^
Chicago is what the 3 largest metro area in the country, so the Minneapolis area definitely won’t have as many things to offer someone. I do think if you compare Minneapolis metro to similar sized metro areas it does a great job. I have traveled all over the US and have lived in Cleveland and Atlanta and think Minneapolis can compete very well with those two areas.

Youngurbanprofessional some of your comments about what you could not find in Minneapolis are not entirely true.

I know there are plenty of different sports leagues in the twin cities area. I’ve played in many different basketball and softball leagues and know of many other sports available.

You stated that there were only 8 fortune 500 companies located in Minnesota. There are actually 20, which almost all are found in the twin cities. The list below is from 2007.

UnitedHealth Group
Target
Best Buy
Travelers Cos.
3M
Supervalu
U.S. Bancorp
CHS
Northwest Airlines
General Mills
Medtronic
Xcel Energy
Ameriprise Financial
Land O'Lakes
C.H. Robinson Worldwide
Thrivent Financial for Lutherans
Hormel Foods
Mosaic
Ecolab
Nash-Finch

Youngurbanprofessional you also make it sound as if there are no jobs in the twin cities area. I’m probably younger than you and most of my friends are working for great companies getting paid pretty good for just being out of college. I actually turned down jobs in the twin cities area to work in Europe. Having not lived in the twin cities area much the last 6 years I have actually come to like it more than when I left, could be the fact that I have rarely seen a Minnesota winter in that time though.

[athorson710]

I will agree with youngurbanprofessional in saying that Chicago has more going on for a young single professional than Minny and much of that is determined by the size difference. I will also agree somewhat that people here are probably more cliquey than Chicago is.

But I still think Minneapolis does a pretty good job in offering things to young people who are out of college and I'm saying this from personal experience. Been here for 3 years now and I have found it very easy to be active through sports leagues (just try csc for example), volunteering, etc. Also, if people are a little more cliquey, then it's a good chance for you to work harder, branch out and find news ways to make friends. Things and new friends just aren't going to show up at your doorstep. You gotta work at it. I joined some volunteering networks, got involved with my college alumni chapter, and attended events geared towards bringing young people together. I had no problem meeting people, making friends (most came through work when I moved) and feeling welcomed by many others. I just think that you're giving people a bad rap by assuming that most of them are cliquey and unwelcoming, when in reality, those people are in the minority overall.

You keep talking about how you couldn't land a job at a fortune 500 company here. Are you trying to blame that on the companies you applied to? And it's crazy that you couldn't find a job here for 9 months. There are a TON of jobs here. I have worked at 2 of the companies on akronbball's list and have many other friends who have worked for those companies and other "small 10 person companies". You just gotta look for them, be qualified, and interview well. Not saying that you weren't qualified, you are just making it seem like it's Minneapolis' fault for you not getting that job.

[rcsteiner]

Originally Posted by athorson710

You keep talking about how you couldn't land a job at a fortune 500 company here. Are you trying to blame that on the companies you applied to? And it's crazy that you couldn't find a job here for 9 months. There are a TON of jobs here.

Actually, it isn't that crazy. Trying to find work in the Twin Cities after 9/11 as an experienced former airline IT person was almost impossible, for example. After 32 months and only small contracts to show for it, I ended up taking a job here in Atlanta because there was *NO* permanent work in the Twin Cities. I know mainframe and UNIX software development people, sysadmins, and networking people who were all in the same boat, and I still know one experienced IT person up there who have been without permanent work since October 2001. Contract work (and his wife's management position) is keeping him afloat, and even that can be a spotty proposition.

If Delta ends up merging with Northwest, chances are good that the NWA computer center (Building J) in Eagan will be closing, and that will dump roughly 1000 IT people on the Twin Cities job market. Good luck finding IT work in a mild recession in a tight market against that kind of competition.

I have worked at 2 of the companies on akronbball's list and have many other friends who have worked for those companies and other "small 10 person companies". You just gotta look for them, be qualified, and interview well. Not saying that you weren't qualified, you are just making it seem like it's Minneapolis' fault for you not getting that job.

It might not be Minneapolis' fault, but it's also misleading to say that jobs will drop out of the sky. At least in IT, companies are very fussy, and they're still looking for people who match specific tech and LOB skillsets. Generalized IT experience seems to mean very little these days even though logically it should -- in many cases, if you don't have recent experience in their specific industry, they aren't going to grant you an interview...

[golfgal]

I think that in the Twin Cities some jobs may be hard to come by but I know quite a few IT people that haven't had any issue finding jobs BUT I don't know what their 'areas' are either. I do know that there are MANY outstate companies that are looking for good IT people and pay very well for the area so your standard of living is pretty good. It isn't Minneapolis but there are jobs.

[rcsteiner]

Originally Posted by golfgal

I think that in the Twin Cities some jobs may be hard to come by but I know quite a few IT people that haven't had any issue finding jobs BUT I don't know what their 'areas' are either. I do know that there are MANY outstate companies that are looking for good IT people and pay very well for the area so your standard of living is pretty good. It isn't Minneapolis but there are jobs.

There are too many factors to easily summarize, I suspect.

"IT person" could mean just about anything from network analyst to project manager to software developer to DBA to help desk analyst to web developer to Q/A Analyst to documentation specialist.

Those are very different skillsets, and some of them are general in nature while others are more tied to specific technogies or lines of business.

My wife had no issues finding work during the same period as an experienced help desk analyst. It took her only a couple of weeks to find a job she liked, and she was able to leave her old job environment (which had been very good but had changed for the worse) right away.

As a 10+ year senior software developer with a BSCS from a locally reputable institution (Mankato State) and mainly mainframe and high-end UNIX development experience, however, it was much tougher road. I wasn't a web developer, and I didn't write Windows software for a living. We simply didn't use that stuff in critical airline systems. My 15 years of informally building PCs and playing with Linux and Windows networks didn't seem to impress anyone.

My youngest brother ran into many of the same issues (being overqualified, or not having quite the right mix of tech and/or business skills) during his year-long search more recently, and he only had roughly five years of experience as a networking guy. But that made him too experienced for a rather surprising number of companies, both initially in Kansas City and after he moved back up to the Twin Cities.

In some job markets, and especially technology, there's a curious and often frustrating disjoint between those who have the skills to do a given job and those who are looking for people to hire. Experience is often a disadvantage, non-current experience is often discounted even if that tech hasn't changed much, and informal experience is treasured by some companies and treated with disdain by others.

[Oildog]

I've lived in both (downtown) and echo many of the same comments. Chicago has more options for entertainment for young professionals. Minnesota has better family situation. If you are w/o kids, living in a 2 br condo near Lake Michigan was great. If you want the big yard and a more homogenous culture Mpls is it.

I think it would less enjoyable in Chicago (expensive) if you didnt have at least 80k of combined income though.