I'm in the Bay Area now visiting

[MN-Born-n-Raised]

Originally Posted by uptown_urbanist

..(if forced to go with such limitations) of my SF neighborhood would be "Chinese." There's nothing like it in the Twin Cities. .

Chinatown San Francisco - The largest chinatown outside of Asia

"The largest Chinatown outside of Asia" captures the vibe.


From City-data:
San Fran:
White alone - 367,507 (45.1%)
Asian alone - 250,627 (30.7%)
Hispanic - 117,492 (14.4%)
Black alone - 47,596 (5.8%)
Two or more races - 23,760 (2.9%)
Native Hawaiian and Other Pacific Islander alone - 3,706 (0.5%)
Other race alone - 2,810 (0.3%)
American alone - 1,859 (0.2%)

[lalife]

Originally Posted by uptown_urbanist

If you're taking offense I think you're over-analyzing things; having lived in San Francisco myself, I think, depending on part of the city, the number of both Asian people and homeless people (which sometimes overlap, although my impression is not that much) is a major change from here. Hispanic population always seemed far less visible in SF (although not necessarily when talking about Bay Area as a whole), but that may have been simply due to where we lived.

In any case, from my own experience I'd say that both "Asian" (especially Chinese, but by no means exclusively) and "homeless" (but not homeless Asians) are pretty good descriptions for the SF experience. In fact, I'd probably go so far as to say that a decent one-word description (if forced to go with such limitations) of my SF neighborhood would be "Chinese." There's nothing like it in the Twin Cities. I've also heard San Francisco described as a colonial Asian outpost, and thought there was some truth in that description.

And yes, there are also a lot more homeless people in SF than in Minneapolis or St. Paul, and they're a lot more visible. I would imagine that it could be a shock if coming from here.

All one has to do is go to Lake Phalen in the summer and you would be among Hmongs everywhere. I don't think being in San Francisco among the Asians would be any type of shock for a person who actually explores the Twin Cities. The same goes for Hispanics. Spend any time around West St Paul and there you have it. I agree that there aren't many homeless here like in San Francisco and that is a good thing. That is the only thing that was shocking to me while visiting that city. The homeless in the Tenderloin district can be very scary because they actually make threats when you walk by. Don't come across that here in the Twin Cities. The OP sounds like he lives in rural Stillwater or something.

[uptown_urbanist]

Originally Posted by lalife

All one has to do is go to Lake Phalen in the summer and you would be among Hmongs everywhere. I don't think being in San Francisco among the Asians would be any type of shock for a person who actually explores the Twin Cities. The same goes for Hispanics. Spend any time around West St Paul and there you have it. I agree that there aren't many homeless here like in San Francisco and that is a good thing. That is the only thing that was shocking to me while visiting that city. The homeless in the Tenderloin district can be very scary because they actually make threats when you walk by. Don't come across that here in the Twin Cities. The OP sounds like he lives in rural Stillwater or something.

I've certainly explored the Twin Cities. There are NO neighborhoods in the Twin Cities that come close to what you find in San Francisco. That's not to suggest in any way that there isn't a visible Asian presence in the Twin Cities (especially St. Paul) -- but it's still nowhere near what you find in San Francisco. Haven't checked the numbers, but aren't the most Asian neighborhoods in St. Paul still top out at about 40%? In any case, it's still a different feel in San Francisco. Some of it is due to numbers (there are more Asian residents in San Francisco, both in terms of overall numbers and as a percentage of the total population), and some of it is likely due to other factors, including historical; one of our neighbors was the fifth-generation of his family (Chinese in heritage) to have lived in the city. In addition to the families who have been living there since the 19th century and who helped shape the history you also still have many immigrants. There's a Chinese mayor. They make announcements on the bus in Chinese (assume it's Cantonese). If my son goes to school there he will possibly be one of a handful of white kids in his class. St. Paul certainly does have a visible Hmong (and Asian in general) presence, but given that the Asian population is still less than 15% of the total population (and hasn't been living there for 150 years) it's not surprising that San Francisco still feels like a far more "Asian" city. (although, like St. Paul, it's still more visible in some parts of the city than in others; go to the Richmond -- the "new" Chinatown, the Sunset, or, obviously, Chinatown and it feels VERY Chinese, while neighborhoods like the Castro or Noe Valley feel pretty white, and the Mission is more Hispanic and white). Actually, the biggest change for me was how few black people live in the city. The percentage of African American residents is very small in SF, and that, too, was a change for someone who grew up in the Twin Cities.

[lalife]

Originally Posted by uptown_urbanist

I've certainly explored the Twin Cities. There are NO neighborhoods in the Twin Cities that come close to what you find in San Francisco. That's not to suggest in any way that there isn't a visible Asian presence in the Twin Cities (especially St. Paul) -- but it's still nowhere near what you find in San Francisco. Haven't checked the numbers, but aren't the most Asian neighborhoods in St. Paul still top out at about 40%? In any case, it's still a different feel in San Francisco. Some of it is due to numbers (there are more Asian residents in San Francisco, both in terms of overall numbers and as a percentage of the total population), and some of it is likely due to other factors, including historical; one of our neighbors was the fifth-generation of his family (Chinese in heritage) to have lived in the city. In addition to the families who have been living there since the 19th century and who helped shape the history you also still have many immigrants. There's a Chinese mayor. They make announcements on the bus in Chinese (assume it's Cantonese). If my son goes to school there he will possibly be one of a handful of white kids in his class. St. Paul certainly does have a visible Hmong (and Asian in general) presence, but given that the Asian population is still less than 15% of the total population (and hasn't been living there for 150 years) it's not surprising that San Francisco still feels like a far more "Asian" city. (although, like St. Paul, it's still more visible in some parts of the city than in others; go to the Richmond -- the "new" Chinatown, the Sunset, or, obviously, Chinatown and it feels VERY Chinese, while neighborhoods like the Castro or Noe Valley feel pretty white, and the Mission is more Hispanic and white). Actually, the biggest change for me was how few black people live in the city. The percentage of African American residents is very small in SF, and that, too, was a change for someone who grew up in the Twin Cities.

I wasn't talking about neighborhoods, I was talking about coming across live and breathing Asians or Hispanics. Of course we don't have any type of Chinatown here in MN, but we still have a lot of Asian culture etc. If the OP wants a culture shock, perhaps he should visit Koreantown in LA. Now, that place could be a shock for survival. Everything in Korean etc.

[StanleyVegas]

Originally Posted by lalife

I wasn't talking about neighborhoods, I was talking about coming across live and breathing Asians or Hispanics. Of course we don't have any type of Chinatown here in MN, but we still have a lot of Asian culture etc. If the OP wants a culture shock, perhaps he should visit Koreantown in LA. Now, that place could be a shock for survival. Everything in Korean etc.

As UU said Chinese roots in SF and California are deep, spurred by the gold rush and the building of the railroad (Chinese workers tunneled through the Sierra Nevada mountains with blasting powder). Other asian groups followed in the 20th century.

Hispanic roots run much deeper. With CA previously being part of Mexico, and the Spanish Empire before that, most of the major cities were originally Spanish missions. That's why the street and town names are so often Spanish.

[uptown_urbanist]

Originally Posted by lalife

I wasn't talking about neighborhoods, I was talking about coming across live and breathing Asians or Hispanics. Of course we don't have any type of Chinatown here in MN, but we still have a lot of Asian culture etc. If the OP wants a culture shock, perhaps he should visit Koreantown in LA. Now, that place could be a shock for survival. Everything in Korean etc.

Same can be said (well, more likely in Chinese than in Korean) for many neighborhoods in San Francisco. Although yes, I recommend that the OP visit Koreatown, too, if he happens to be in LA! Or, for that matter, any of the many other neighborhoods dominated by various ethnic groups.

In any case, while there are areas of the Twin Cities -- and St. Paul, where OP is from -- where the Hispanic and Asian population is very high, it still (I think) feels significantly different than what you experience in the big California cities. That will presumably continue to change as demographics as a whole change, but for now, yes, I can see why he could notice the difference while visiting the Bay Area.

For what it's worth, after coming back to Minneapolis from California (including on visits while living in LA and in SF) the one thing that jumps out at me about the Twin Cities is the very visible Somali population. I'm sure that's something that strikes others visiting from out-of-town, too. It's interesting to see how different cities evolve and change with time, and how each different ethnic mix of a particular city or metro area helps to contribute to its own unique identity.