My feelings about Minneapolis-St Paul! (St. Paul, Eagan: lease, homes, neighborhood)

[crbcrbrgv]

Originally Posted by golfgal

Until you have kids and realize that the schools in Texas are horrible. Having lived in a state with no income tax I now GLADLY pay our taxes in MN for the services/amenities/schools, etc. we have here.

I am a teacher in Texas. The schools here aren't bad at all. The high percentage of bilingual students still learning a foreign language and being tested on it in 3 years when research says it takes 7 years to learn a language brings the scores down considerably. Not only that, Texas has some of the best Charter and Magnet schools in the country. What is ridiculous about Minnesota is how there is no tax on food yet every time I visit grampa and run to Rainbow over in Roseville the groceries cost more than what I pay in Houston. And this includes an 8.25 percent sales tax. Not to mention, our health facilities are just as good as they are in Minnesota despite not having sales or income tax.

[SickoftheCold]

Originally Posted by lukeache

I have tried to convince my fiance to move to St Paul, but she finds it "ghetto". Maybe we are spoiled by living in Eagan for all these years, but I totally understand what she means. Just dealing with Ramsey County or Hennepin County can be a hassle. It seems like as soon as you cross into city boundaries, everything changes. I go to some of the St Paul/Minneapolis parks and they dont take good care of their parks, also, everything is shadier in St Paul, I went to a SA last night and they ask you to prepay, that kind of stuff you never deal with living in this part of Eagan. Maybe we are spoiled and I dont know if that is a good or bad thing.!Anyways, we will see what happens!

I do agree with you that st. paul isnt as nice as eagan but Are you kidding me? There are gas stations in eagan that you have to Prepay at! That is a lame reason for calling st. paul shady.

[Camden Northsider]

Originally Posted by lukeache

Minneapolis also absorbs a lot of the ghetto trash from Chicago. The North Side of this city is a wasteland, nothing but murder, drugs and chaos and so many undesirables from Illinois come here for the benefits. I agree, it is hard to find a place like Minnesota, but sometimes I wonder where our tax money is going (especially after the 35W bridge incident). I guess, I have to consider this carefully..but Texas is not that bad.

This is untrue and you are speaking about that which you don't know.

(1) the "benefits" in Minnesota are the same as they are anywhere else in the nation - there's this new technology called, oh, what is the name of that...i think they call it a "database"...this means that when someone is receiving benefits in another state and move here, the new financial worker can see/ know how long they were receiving benefits, what they were at, etc. - the bulk majority of 'benefits' are decided by federal legislation and it is standardized in the states - thus preventing people from hopping around from state to state to get more benefits or extend the time they can be on it. FOR THE RECORD, people's "benefits" are, i can't remember the exact quote, but I know it is a fraction of a fraction of one percent of the federal government's entire budget

(2) if you want to worry about your tax dollars, worry about the war on iraq - i just heard a report that no one in the military could track or account for a whopping 850 million dollars in military equipment that was paid out but no one documented whether it was received or not nor can say whether they got anything. And this is just a tiny tiny fraction of the military spending that happens each year. Think about all the money going to halliburton and other bush croney subsidiaries and maybe you'll quit worrying about the pennies that are thrown to needy families every year by the government.

(3)A recent news article said that Minneapolis is one of the fastest growing in the nation in terms of black wealth with one of the fastest growing population of up and coming black mid- to upper class black persons in the nation.

And,
(4) if you don't want to sound ignorant, don't make sweeping broad generalizations about very large geographic areas like North Minneapolis. If you are going to talk negatively or positively about a neighborhood, let's educate ourselves about specific neighborhoods, various statistics about them, and then make informed opinions about them and decide what you want to post on a public forum in an educated manner. I live in North Minneapolis. Like many many other people in North, I love my neighborhood, the people around me, and I wouldn't choose to live anywhere else in the Metro. Like many other people in North Mpls, I am a college educated professional, a homeowner, I donate money to several charities/ non-profits throughout the year, and I'm about 99% sure that I pay a hell of a lot more in taxes each year than yourself. And you're going to call me "ghetto trash" and my neighborhood "a wasteland"? I don't think so.

Your post makes me very angry and I don't want my post to get deleted, so I'm just going to stop right where I'm at in order to avoid the use of expletives...

[Minnehahapolitan]

I guess lukeache can move to Texas and see for himself. Here are some acts, though. ---Mpls. is the terminus of most drug lines (except for that we supply Duluth). Texas, along with Miami and Calif., accounts for most of the drug trafficking into America.
--3.5 million illegal immigrants have caused a population boom. They came to Texas for the same reason that people here come from Chicago. The number of people that go to Texas, though, is larger in number than the population of the entire metropolitan area in which he currently lives.
--In Texas, you can see where tax money should go. Their services are tolled from high population gains. Our tax money doesn't always go to shiny, tangible objects that you can see the next year. Nobody really notices the extra half-dozen coppers, or the extra teachers, or plowed roads. They are givens here. They go to a system of communal welfare so that there aren't towns along the Southern border with Iowa that lack plumbing. The bridges in this state are some of the best maintained in the nation.
Texas isn't that bad....it could be Bogota.

Your generalization of all of North Mpls. is completely wrong. You think Saint Paul is shady because their parks are suburbanly immaculate? That is just silly.

[Guero]

Originally Posted by Camden Northsider

This is untrue and you are speaking about that which you don't know.

(1) the "benefits" in Minnesota are the same as they are anywhere else in the nation - there's this new technology called, oh, what is the name of that...i think they call it a "database"...this means that when someone is receiving benefits in another state and move here, the new financial worker can see/ know how long they were receiving benefits, what they were at, etc. - the bulk majority of 'benefits' are decided by federal legislation and it is standardized in the states - thus preventing people from hopping around from state to state to get more benefits or extend the time they can be on it. FOR THE RECORD, people's "benefits" are, i can't remember the exact quote, but I know it is a fraction of a fraction of one percent of the federal government's entire budget

(2) if you want to worry about your tax dollars, worry about the war on iraq - i just heard a report that no one in the military could track or account for a whopping 850 million dollars in military equipment that was paid out but no one documented whether it was received or not nor can say whether they got anything. And this is just a tiny tiny fraction of the military spending that happens each year. Think about all the money going to halliburton and other bush croney subsidiaries and maybe you'll quit worrying about the pennies that are thrown to needy families every year by the government.

(3)A recent news article said that Minneapolis is one of the fastest growing in the nation in terms of black wealth with one of the fastest growing population of up and coming black mid- to upper class black persons in the nation.

And,
(4) if you don't want to sound ignorant, don't make sweeping broad generalizations about very large geographic areas like North Minneapolis. If you are going to talk negatively or positively about a neighborhood, let's educate ourselves about specific neighborhoods, various statistics about them, and then make informed opinions about them and decide what you want to post on a public forum in an educated manner. I live in North Minneapolis. Like many many other people in North, I love my neighborhood, the people around me, and I wouldn't choose to live anywhere else in the Metro. Like many other people in North Mpls, I am a college educated professional, a homeowner, I donate money to several charities/ non-profits throughout the year, and I'm about 99% sure that I pay a hell of a lot more in taxes each year than yourself. And you're going to call me "ghetto trash" and my neighborhood "a wasteland"? I don't think so.

Your post makes me very angry and I don't want my post to get deleted, so I'm just going to stop right where I'm at in order to avoid the use of expletives...

I have to say something here.

I am a native Minnesotan who grew up in North Minneapolis. Ironically, my father's family is from Camden. I returned to North when I was about 30, lived there for about 3 or 4 years and could not wait to get out. I am also college educated, and I think you're taking what was said about North way too personally. No one said that everyone in North is trash and that the whole place is a ghetto, but it DOES have some major problems in areas.

Heck, I lived in one of the "worst" neighborhoods in EL Paso, Texas for a part of the 80s, was never bothered by anyone. Then I come back to North and my house is robbed within 6 months and people on the bus tried to pick a fight with me because I guess you're supposed to look at the floor because otherwise you're "asking" for someone to get up in your face. My car, my brother's car and my cousin's were all hit by drunks within a year's period. Just parked on the street (because, as you know, many people have no choice but to park on the street in North.)

The north side has some major problem areas (been down around lower Penn lately?), there have been and are people moving to North from Chicago, St, Louis, and other points south and east, for many years, who are not desirable, as many of them are avoiding prosecution or seeking the increased benefits Minnesota provides.

Your post is akin to how I view how the City of Minneapolis officials treatment of the area - they don't want to admit that it's there are major problem areas, and they have been playing that game for years, and what many folks, including yourself don't see is that these issues need to be acknowledged before theses problem areas can be addressed.

I love my hometown and I want to see it improve. The first step towards improvement is admitting that there are problems.

Many years, the per capita murder rate in Mpls. exceeds that of NYC. Remember when NYC was calling us Murderapolis?

You can drive down Broadway during the day on a weekday, and you will see hundreds of able-bodied people just hanging out, milling around, stopping traffic by walking right up to a car and start jabbering. Not a care in the world I guess.

On benefits - you are aware that Hennepin county has a VERY desirable help network are you not? When contrasted with other urban counties nationwide, Hennepin gives out a significantly more help than the average county (I don't think that is a bad thing), but I am not going to mislead myself into believing that its the same everywhere. This is over and above what you talk about with federal funding.

I hope you get mad. You should be mad. But, you should be mad that the City itself is ignoring the area's problems, and not misdirect that anger at people who are not afraid to admit that the area has some major problems.

[Camden Northsider]

Originally Posted by Guero

I have to say something here.

I am a native Minnesotan who grew up in North Minneapolis. Ironically, my father's family is from Camden. I returned to North when I was about 30, lived there for about 3 or 4 years and could not wait to get out. I am also college educated, and I think you're taking what was said about North way too personally. No one said that everyone in North is trash and that the whole place is a ghetto, but it DOES have some major problems in areas.

I think you missed my point - I never said it doesn't have problems...my main argument was not to dismiss large geographic areas, if someone is going to talk about local issues, let's get local and talk about specific neighborhoods. There are many highly livable/ excellent neighborhoods in North; there are also a number of neighborhoods that do have large concentrations of poverty and crime.

Originally Posted by Guero

Heck, I lived in one of the "worst" neighborhoods in EL Paso, Texas for a part of the 80s, was never bothered by anyone. Then I come back to North and my house is robbed within 6 months and people on the bus tried to pick a fight with me because I guess you're supposed to look at the floor because otherwise you're "asking" for someone to get up in your face. My car, my brother's car and my cousin's were all hit by drunks within a year's period. Just parked on the street (because, as you know, many people have no choice but to park on the street in North.).

Which neighborhood are you specifically speaking of? The parking issue (and the crime issue) is not true in my neighborhood and many other North/ Camden neighborhoods.

Originally Posted by Guero

The north side has some major problem areas (been down around lower Penn lately?), there have been and are people moving to North from Chicago, St, Louis, and other points south and east, for many years, who are not desirable, as many of them are avoiding prosecution or seeking the increased benefits Minnesota provides..

Yes I have been down to lower Penn, I take it almost on a daily basis to work...there has been migration from other areas as MN is generally known as a great place to live...

Originally Posted by Guero

Your post is akin to how I view how the City of Minneapolis officials treatment of the area - they don't want to admit that it's there are major problem areas, and they have been playing that game for years, and what many folks, including yourself don't see is that these issues need to be acknowledged before theses problem areas can be addressed.

I love my hometown and I want to see it improve. The first step towards improvement is admitting that there are problems..

I never said there wasn't any problems - again I was arguing not to blanket stereotype large geographic areas, if you go back and look at my other posts you will see that. I actually work for an organization that is N Mpls/ neighborhood based and addresses issues of poverty/ crime/ homelessness, etc.

Originally Posted by Guero

You can drive down Broadway during the day on a weekday, and you will see hundreds of able-bodied people just hanging out, milling around, stopping traffic by walking right up to a car and start jabbering. Not a care in the world I guess.

You're correct here, and specifically this would be the West Broadway corridor and can be seen beginning at 94 (or probably the bridge) and continuing just past Penn Ave. But, there are revitalization efforts/ new investments going on on West Broadway so the face of it is currently changing.

Originally Posted by Guero

On benefits - you are aware that Hennepin county has a VERY desirable help network are you not? When contrasted with other urban counties nationwide, Hennepin gives out a significantly more help than the average county (I don't think that is a bad thing), but I am not going to mislead myself into believing that its the same everywhere. This is over and above what you talk about with federal funding.

I am a part of that "help network" and you're right, the human and social services in Hennepin county are very impressive and a model for the rest of the nation - however I was speaking of cash benefits, in general when anyone talks about "benefits", they are talking about "cash". TANF legislation comes from the Feds and persons' 'grants' are based on cost of living in the state, how many children they have, etc. And any cash or food stamp benefits have time limits and matrixes that are standard/ used throughout the nation.

Originally Posted by Guero

I hope you get mad. You should be mad. But, you should be mad that the City itself is ignoring the area's problems, and not misdirect that anger at people who are not afraid to admit that the area has some major problems.

I don't think the City is ignoring the problems at all. The City is actually investing disproportionately large amounts of money towards North Minneapolis to address needed human services and urban revitalization (it's correct to say that this maybe has taken more time that it should have, but the level of investment now is akin to what was seen on Franklin Ave, Midway Exchange/ Lake Street in recent years).

I appreciate the fact that you have roots/ experience living in North Mpls; you never actually mentioned what neighborhoods you lived in in North, which again, goes back to what my anger was targeted at - there is a lot of good and great things happening in North Minneapolis and this includes many North Minneapolis neighborhoods - let's not make blanket statements about half of the entire City of Minneapolis.

[01Snake]

Originally Posted by golfgal

Again, you get what you pay for. There is a reason Minnesota taxes are high and the top rated schools in the nation are a big reason for that.

Top rated? According to Newsweek, there is a total of ONE Minnesota high school on the list of Top 100 High Schools.
Texas has 11. Go figure.

Of the 1300 Best High Schools, MN has 21 while TX has 123 on the list. Obviously there is going to be a difference due to the population diffence but to say TX schools are bad is like saying its not cold today in Minnesota.

http://www.newsweek.com/id/39380

[moving123456]

Originally Posted by 01Snake

Top rated? According to Newsweek, there is a total of ONE Minnesota high school on the list of Top 100 High Schools.
Texas has 11. Go figure.

Of the 1300 Best High Schools, MN has 21 while TX has 123 on the list. Obviously there is going to be a difference due to the population diffence but to say TX schools are bad is like saying its not cold today in Minnesota.

http://www.newsweek.com/id/39380

Number of tests taken divided by graduating seniors is not a good way to rate schools in my opinion.

[rcsteiner]

Originally Posted by 01Snake

Top rated? According to Newsweek, there is a total of ONE Minnesota high school on the list of Top 100 High Schools.
Texas has 11. Go figure.

Look at what they're measuring, and ask yourself two questions:

(1) Is what they're measuring actually relevant when determining the general "quality" of a given school.

(2) Are the high school assessments in that study any better than most of the top college assessment lists which come out every year?

I suspect many people would say that the answer to both questions is "no"...

[lukeache]

I graduated from a TX High School (Humble High School) and I really enjoyed the more "structured" approach in Texas. I am not sure if Texas high schools generally speaking are better or worse than schools here in MN, but it is a totally different approach to learning. Obviously, Minnesota is a much more liberal and educated state overall, therefore schools will be more liberal but I am not sure if that is a good thing. I know many kids that graduated from good schools like Eastview and Lakeville and sometimes I wonder if these kids were really challenged academically to their potential. If I had gone to college in TX, I could have chosen from 60 different colleges universities in state(3 times more options than here in MN). Also, In-state college tuition in Texas is dirt cheap compared to MN. I am not sure if TX schools are better or worse, different approaches though.