Mpls Southwest #1 High School....Again (Minneapolis, Minnetonka: high schools, colleges, live)

[uptown_urbanist]

Originally Posted by Globe199

Explain this. You seem to be implying that "minority" means "low test scores."

Golfgal is right that in Minneapolis there is a VERY stark divide in test scores along racial/ethnic lines. I think you're focusing on the "minority" and skipping the "middle-class." The reality is that in the Twin Cities if you are a poor minority student you are, statistically speaking, not as likely to do well on performance tests. There are a lot of people out there working very hard to figure out how to eliminate that gap, but for now, anyway, it's an unfortunate reality.

[uptown_urbanist]

Originally Posted by cinnamon_toast

I think that holds true in most urban areas and also in rural areas with high minority populations.

Still scratching my head as to why the top schools in MN have such low AP pass scores. All the top schools in TX are 100% or close to 100%. Our little country school which is good, but not on any published "top" lists, is 62% passing.

What's the participation rate at your school? My guess is that the MN schools on the list have a higher overall participation rate, which means that by default there are probably kids in the class who might not really be up to AP/IB standards. It's a tough call: you want to make the opportunities available to everyone, but you also don't want to drag the class as a whole down. In these top schools here there's incredible pressure to take the IB/AP courses, and I'm sure some kids take them who would be better off in a decent non-honors option.

[northsub]

Originally Posted by cinnamon_toast

I have no horse in this race, but two things of interest in the statistics. The achievement gap for black, hispanic, and disadvantaged students is very high for Southwest. I am comparing to the fringe rural school district we are in in TX and our numbers look much better (1/3 minority and over 1/3 economically disadvantaged). Also, a less than half pass rate for AP exams? That seems surprisingly low to me for the top school in MN.

Congrats to Southwest. I always knew the MPS were good. I will say I think there are good things going on at schools that didn't make any "top" list.

I think the problem is the definition of "top school". In Texas, the U.S. News top schools have AP exam pass rates of:
#1: School for the Talented and Gifted (Dallas): 66%
#2: School of Science and Engineering Magnet (Dallas): 51%
#3: Carnegie Vanguard (Houston): 63%

[cinnamon_toast]

The link I am looking at shows much higher numbers, with the top 2 schools in TX having 100% passing the AP exam, with 100% taking the exams.

Search Texas High Schools | US News

I know nothing about these schools, I'm sure they are elite magnet schools that may have a competitive selection process. But further down the list are "regular" schools showing a much higher passing rate than what Southwest has, ALL above 50% and most about 70%. My kids' school has 62% passing AP and it is not a highly recognized school by any means.

Which begs the question, if the quality of teaching at Southwest is so high, shouldn't the pass rate for AP exams be higher? Regardless of participation rate?

[cinnamon_toast]

uptown_urbanist -- is there not a selection process to get into AP or IB classes at Southwest? anyone can enroll?

[uptown_urbanist]

Originally Posted by cinnamon_toast

uptown_urbanist -- is there not a selection process to get into AP or IB classes at Southwest? anyone can enroll?

I'm not certain how it works these days, but do know that they formally call it "open access" and do encourage all students to give IB a try. It's not like the elite public schools in some cities where you have to complete a competitive screening process to get into the school or the program, for example. Some classes do have prerequisites or require a teacher recommendation, but the goal seems to be to give more students more opportunities.

There are slightly different course tracks students take depending on what level they enter the school at in 9th grade. If you took algebra of a certain level in junior high, for example, you can move straight into geometry, which means that in your junior and senior years you'll have more higher-level math course opportunities due to the course sequencing options, and could therefore fit in more AP/IB courses and exams over the course of your high school years.

[northsub]

Originally Posted by cinnamon_toast

The link I am looking at shows much higher numbers, with the top 2 schools in TX having 100% passing the AP exam, with 100% taking the exams.

Search Texas High Schools | US News

I know nothing about these schools, I'm sure they are elite magnet schools that may have a competitive selection process. But further down the list are "regular" schools showing a much higher passing rate than what Southwest has, ALL above 50% and most about 70%. My kids' school has 62% passing AP and it is not a highly recognized school by any means.

Which begs the question, if the quality of teaching at Southwest is so high, shouldn't the pass rate for AP exams be higher? Regardless of participation rate?

The "Passed" % you are looking at is the % of students in the school who passed at least 1 exam. If you click on the school and then click on the "Test Scores" tab you can scroll down and get an "Exam Pass Rate" which is the % of exams passed at the school.

Those are the stats I was using to get a pass rate of 48% of AP Exams at Southwest. If you are going to critique that, you ought to at least use the same statistics at other schools. Or you can critique my using of that statistic.

My point is that there seems to be wildly different standards for which students take the exams at various schools. So, looking at the number of students who take such exams is probably telling you a lot more about the standard at that school than it is telling you about the academic abilities of the students.

[northsub]

Originally Posted by uptown_urbanist

What's the participation rate at your school? My guess is that the MN schools on the list have a higher overall participation rate, which means that by default there are probably kids in the class who might not really be up to AP/IB standards. It's a tough call: you want to make the opportunities available to everyone, but you also don't want to drag the class as a whole down. In these top schools here there's incredible pressure to take the IB/AP courses, and I'm sure some kids take them who would be better off in a decent non-honors option.

The "top" 10 schools in Texas all have participation rates above 90%. Southwest is 73%.

[uptown_urbanist]

Originally Posted by northsub

The "top" 10 schools in Texas all have participation rates above 90%. Southwest is 73%.

I was referring to the poster's school (which she said wasn't on any lists), not the "top" Texas schools. I would expect the top Texas schools to have higher participation rates, or at least would expect the specialized magnet or charters schools to have that kind of participation level. (From a quick look it appears that most of the top 10 Texas schools were magnets, along with a few non-magnets in what appear to be VERY wealthy -- zero percent poor kids at Highland Park, for example -- locations.)

ETA: should also clarify that by the pressure comment I meant that while at the application-only magnet/charter schools (or even just very wealthy schools like Highland Park) there is going to be significant pressure to take a load filled with advanced courses, but at "regular" schools like SW and many of the other MN schools the student body is more diverse, academically-speaking, and includes kids who would not necessarily be able to gain admittance to a competitive school. (or in the case of some students, can't afford to seek additional outside tutoring if needed-- that's an industry that has really exploded in recent years, although doesn't seem to be as big of a deal in the Twin Cities as in some locations. Still, it's worth noting that sometimes students are getting a lot of help outside of school itself.) Obviously plenty of SW students ARE high-performing (the school also tends to do well on the local National Merit lists, for example), but because it's a regular public high school that takes all the students in its attendance zone (which is mostly, although not all, middle- to upper-class, which gives it built-in advantages, but still makes it quite different from a public school like Highland Park, which by the numbers, anyway, seems to be a very isolated enclave of wealthy families.)

[Mason3000]

Originally Posted by uptown_urbanist

Golfgal is right that in Minneapolis there is a VERY stark divide in test scores along racial/ethnic lines. I think you're focusing on the "minority" and skipping the "middle-class." The reality is that in the Twin Cities if you are a poor minority student you are, statistically speaking, not as likely to do well on performance tests. There are a lot of people out there working very hard to figure out how to eliminate that gap, but for now, anyway, it's an unfortunate reality.

Agree 100%. A few thoughts on this subject. 1) Many of the minority students in Mpls are immigrants from Somalia, Ethiopia, Latin America & Asia which creates challenges with English second language. Perhaps not bad students at all, just learning a new language & thus aren't likely to shine on standardized tests? 2) Since my daughters are classified as "White" I look at the racial breakdown of the schools my kids are in and look to see how white kids are scoring on tests. If the overall test scores are 80% but white kids are at 97% & the others are at 63%, then my kids should be fine. 3) Mpls SW is not an "inner city" school filled with minorities. It's on the Edina border & takes kids from Lake Harriett/Linden Hills, Lake Calhoun, Lake of the Isles/Kenwood, Uptown, etc. Virtually all exclusive, wealthy, predominantly white areas so the subject of minorities lowering test scores doesn't have real impact at Mpls SW (I say this without having checked the current racial demographics, so perhaps they've changed dramatically?).