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All the worrying about 3rd-party rankings and trying to infer numbers from percentages published in different sources seems silly to me. The link GG posted has more direct data than you are going to get through lots of other manipulations.
As someone who is not familiar with, affiliated with, and has no particular interest in either school, it looks like Rosemount and SW are pretty similar except in science, where SW looks awful in comparison (and that would be a big deal to me, worth investigating more, if I were looking to move to that area).
This data shows similar results, and I've also included free/reduced-lunch data (yellow hashes) so you can try to suss out whether the score differences are due to differing income levels.
All the worrying about 3rd-party rankings and trying to infer numbers from percentages published in different sources seems silly to me. The link GG posted has more direct data than you are going to get through lots of other manipulations.
As someone who is not familiar with, affiliated with, and has no particular interest in either school, it looks like Rosemount and SW are pretty similar except in science, where SW looks awful in comparison (and that would be a big deal to me, worth investigating more, if I were looking to move to that area).
This data shows similar results, and I've also included free/reduced-lunch data (yellow hashes) so you can try to suss out whether the score differences are due to differing income levels.
I don't necessarily agree the only data that can be used is this link, but for arguments sake let's go with it.
I'll cede the point that perhaps Mpls SW is not the #1 school in the state, but it's undeniably in the mix with the other top schools & that's my bottom line point. You don't have to move to the suburbs to get a great public education & these city schools aren't showing up on these lists due to smoke & mirrors or fuzzy math (St Paul Central is just a hair behind Mpls SW & RM, btw, so it too is legitimately in the mix of the best public schools in the state).
GG & Stolafs69 would have you believe that the city schools are horrible, or that there's a night & day difference between them & the top suburban schools (lest we forget there are some real crap suburban schools as well) & the top city schools, which simply isn't true.
Now, let's drill down into this data just a bit. IF...SW & SPC are right around where schools like GG's Rosemount are, in spite of having English Second Language & low income students mixed in, then maybe they ARE better schools? Also, how does this break down by demographic? i.e.. With all due respect, how the poor, African American kids score doesn't really effect my kids, they're not poor African Americans. The white kids are scoring higher at the city schools & that's our demographic. I also think the GG's of the world tend to focus on the poorest, most most at-risk students/areas in the city & see it as only that, when in reality that's just a small % of the demographic at the top city schools & in fact these schools have much more affluent students than a middle class suburb like Rosemount does, so it all balances itself out academically.
Its not a matter of me not liking mpls or st. paul or its neighborhoods. I just don't like when misleading statistics are posted to people not familiar with the area. I am not saying you intentially tried to mislead anyone. But as GolfGal has clearly pointed out, many of these statisitcs published are pure crap. How can you evaluate High schools based soley on kids in the IB program? How can you publish a graduation rate that only includes the rate for high schools seniors and ignores the the kids who have already dropped out? I know Mpls and St. Paul are doing what the can to try and keep kids in the district to preserve funding, put publishing misleading graduation stats is horrible. As for for the US News rankings, they only use objectve test scores as a factor in their rankings. The rest of their rankings are based on crap such as IP and AP test performace (which only apply to a small percentage of students) and something called "disadvantaged student performace," which we all know is a way to prop up inner city schools and sell more magazines in those large markets.
Because if you're at all academically inclined and attend a school like Southwest, you will be in the IB program. The majority of students at Southwest ARE in the IB program, so it makes more sense to look at those numbers than to edit them out. Now granted, if you (or your kid) is NOT college-bound, or is perhaps academically struggling, then perhaps a school like Southwest is NOT a good fit. Another reason why parents should look at schools based on their individual needs and interests!
I think it's ridiculous to suggest that there is any one (or two, or three) "best" schools in the state, but it's equally ridiculous to suggest that schools like Southwest, or St. Paul's Central, are somehow inferior. They consistently rank up there as among the better schools in the metro area. Now whether you think that looking at college-bound kids is the best parameter for best is a different issue. Perhaps the schools that take the largest percentage of kids with all the odds stacked against them and helps them to succeed should be considered "best." But realistically, a parent that comes on this forum and asks about schools is not going to be that demographic.
Another fun fact number: Southwest had 7 kids recently named as National Merit finalists. Central had 5. Rosemount had 1. For the record, I think all three of those schools can give kids a great education. But clearly the city schools aren't quite the dens of illiteracy that some erroneously believe them to be. (and no, I don't think that National Merit finalists should be used as a way to measure schools, generally, but it's still interesting.)
I don't necessarily agree the only data that can be used is this link, but for arguments sake let's go with it.
I'll cede the point that perhaps Mpls SW is not the #1 school in the state, but it's undeniably in the mix with the other top schools & that's my bottom line point. You don't have to move to the suburbs to get a great public education & these city schools aren't showing up on these lists due to smoke & mirrors or fuzzy math (St Paul Central is just a hair behind Mpls SW & RM, btw, so it too is legitimately in the mix of the best public schools in the state).
What are the other top schools in the state? I'm looking at places like Mounds View and Edina and Minneapolis Southwest isn't even close. I guess if you consider Rosemount and Apple Valley to be the top schools, then you might as well throw Southwest in there. But, I don't think any of those are the top tier. Are they solid/good schools? Sure. Are they the schools you would seek out if your top priority was a school with high test scores? Not really, there are schools with higher scores out there. Although, I'm not sure who has elite test scores in the southeast metro (maybe there isn't such a high school there?).
Personally, I'm not really sure that it matters all that much as long as you get into a high school that meets some minimal standard.
Minneapolis Southwest
exceeds in math: 26.3%
exceeds in reading: 49.9%
exceeds in science: 10.8%
Rosemount:
exceeds in math: 22.8%
exceeds in reading: 42.8%
exceeds in science: 32.4%
Apple Valley:
exceeds in math: 19.2%
exceeds in reading: 33.8%
exceeds in science: 19.9%
Mounds View:
exceeds in math: 44.7%
exceeds in reading: 57.6%
exceeds in science: 36.1%
Edina:
exceeds in math: 38.7%
exceeds in reading: 65.8%
exceeds in science: 32.1%
Wayzata:
exceeds in math: 40.1%
exceeds in reading: 56.6%
exceeds in science: 34.5%
Minnetonka:
exceeds in math: 39.7%
exceeds in reading: 55.2%
exceeds in science: 38.2%
Mahtomedi:
exceeds in math: 38.1%
exceeds in reading: 59.7%
exceeds in science: 39.4%
What are the other top schools in the state? I'm looking at places like Mounds View and Edina and Minneapolis Southwest isn't even close. I guess if you consider Rosemount and Apple Valley to be the top schools, then you might as well throw Southwest in there. But, I don't think any of those are the top tier. Are they solid/good schools? Sure. Are they the schools you would seek out if your top priority was a school with high test scores? Not really, there are schools with higher scores out there. Although, I'm not sure who has elite test scores in the southeast metro (maybe there isn't such a high school there?).
Personally, I'm not really sure that it matters all that much as long as you get into a high school that meets some minimal standard.
Minneapolis Southwest
exceeds in math: 26.3%
exceeds in reading: 49.9%
exceeds in science: 10.8%
Rosemount:
exceeds in math: 22.8%
exceeds in reading: 42.8%
exceeds in science: 32.4%
Apple Valley:
exceeds in math: 19.2%
exceeds in reading: 33.8%
exceeds in science: 19.9%
Mounds View:
exceeds in math: 44.7%
exceeds in reading: 57.6%
exceeds in science: 36.1%
Edina:
exceeds in math: 38.7%
exceeds in reading: 65.8%
exceeds in science: 32.1%
Wayzata:
exceeds in math: 40.1%
exceeds in reading: 56.6%
exceeds in science: 34.5%
Minnetonka:
exceeds in math: 39.7%
exceeds in reading: 55.2%
exceeds in science: 38.2%
Mahtomedi:
exceeds in math: 38.1%
exceeds in reading: 59.7%
exceeds in science: 39.4%
I've been using Rosemount because that's GG's area. I'm not exactly sure where you got those numbers from (Is it GreatSchools.Org?), but again if you take the white students (of which I was one) at Mpls SW or which my kids will be at St Paul Central and look at the numbers they stack up against anyone in the state.
Location: Mableton, GA USA (NW Atlanta suburb, 4 miles OTP)
11,334 posts, read 26,072,906 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by northsub
What are the other top schools in the state? I'm looking at places like Mounds View and Edina and Minneapolis Southwest isn't even close. I guess if you consider Rosemount and Apple Valley to be the top schools, then you might as well throw Southwest in there. But, I don't think any of those are the top tier. Are they solid/good schools? Sure. Are they the schools you would seek out if your top priority was a school with high test scores? Not really, there are schools with higher scores out there. Although, I'm not sure who has elite test scores in the southeast metro (maybe there isn't such a high school there?).
Personally, I'm not really sure that it matters all that much as long as you get into a high school that meets some minimal standard.
Minneapolis Southwest
exceeds in math: 26.3%
exceeds in reading: 49.9%
exceeds in science: 10.8%
Rosemount:
exceeds in math: 22.8%
exceeds in reading: 42.8%
exceeds in science: 32.4%
Apple Valley:
exceeds in math: 19.2%
exceeds in reading: 33.8%
exceeds in science: 19.9%
Mounds View:
exceeds in math: 44.7%
exceeds in reading: 57.6%
exceeds in science: 36.1%
Edina:
exceeds in math: 38.7%
exceeds in reading: 65.8%
exceeds in science: 32.1%
Wayzata:
exceeds in math: 40.1%
exceeds in reading: 56.6%
exceeds in science: 34.5%
Minnetonka:
exceeds in math: 39.7%
exceeds in reading: 55.2%
exceeds in science: 38.2%
Mahtomedi:
exceeds in math: 38.1%
exceeds in reading: 59.7%
exceeds in science: 39.4%
How does Hopkins do? Golfgal seems to have a negative view of that district ... is there an academic basis at the high school level?
We lived in Roseville for a number of years and our kids attended elementary school there. Overall it was a good experience- good schools and fairly convenient location as far as suburbs go. We recently moved to the St. Anthony Park neighborhood of St. Paul and love it. Its a wonderful community filled with friendly people and lots of children. My kids walk to school and the neighborhood Rec center, as well as the library, restaurants, and shops. I've been impressed with the school- strong parental involvement. Overall, SAP has a lot of urban conveniences with a small town feel. I think its worth a look!
How does Hopkins do? Golfgal seems to have a negative view of that district ... is there an academic basis at the high school level?
Hopkins:
exceeds in math: 20.9%
exceeds in reading: 43.7%
exceeds in science: 21.4%
And because is also seems to come up a lot here:
St. Louis Park:
exceeds in math: 18.6%
exceeds in reading: 40.9%
exceeds in science: 17.5%
Also discussed:
St. Paul Central
exceeds in math: 22.5%
exceeds in reading: 34.0%
exceeds in science: 18.4%
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mason3000
I've been using Rosemount because that's GG's area. I'm not exactly sure where you got those numbers from (Is it GreatSchools.Org?), but again if you take the white students (of which I was one) at Mpls SW or which my kids will be at St Paul Central and look at the numbers they stack up against anyone in the state.
The numbers are from the state data that GG linked to and 1stPontiac was using. Looking at it more, something funny seems to be going on with the science number from Southwest. It appears to be based on 37 students. The math and reading numbers at the same school look to be based on about 400 students. I'm curious why the discrepency exists. The same thing occurs for Minneapolis South, but not for schools in other districts I checked (Mahtomedi and Edina).
We lived in Roseville for a number of years and our kids attended elementary school there. Overall it was a good experience- good schools and fairly convenient location as far as suburbs go. We recently moved to the St. Anthony Park neighborhood of St. Paul and love it. Its a wonderful community filled with friendly people and lots of children. My kids walk to school and the neighborhood Rec center, as well as the library, restaurants, and shops. I've been impressed with the school- strong parental involvement. Overall, SAP has a lot of urban conveniences with a small town feel. I think its worth a look!
To get back to the original question (thank you, julie10, for getting us back on track!) I agree that SAP is another excellent option. I don't live there, but have always enjoyed visiting. It's also near the U of MN's St. Paul campus (which is a pleasant campus -- quiet, agricultural, laid-back, and thanks to lots of tunnels makes a nice place to visit with little kids in the winter when it's cold outside and you are looking for something to do/somewhere to go/somewhere to explore! They also have a bowling alley that is open to the public. And the Goldstein Gallery is one of the best, albeit small, museums in town, although that's more of interest for the adults in the family). Also, Gibbs Farm is over that direction -- a fabulous resource for families! It's a historic farm run by the local historical society, and has a lot of seasonal events, summer day camps, etc. SAP and Gibbs Farm/Falcon Heights area is kind of a trek from our part of Minneapolis, but it's worth it. Nice community core, small town feel, and the experience of visiting a farm (and seeing cows at the U of MN) in the city.
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