Diversity in the Twin Cities

[uptown_urbanist]

No one is "settling" for a substandard education. When it comes to all districts, but especially to the big city districts, it's useless to look at overall numbers. There are so many different schools, and so many different kids coming from different backgrounds, that the overall statistics don't tell the full story. It sounds like the OP understands that. That is especially true in the case of a school like South, which I think 99% of local residents would agree is more diverse than a school that has, say, 85% of its student body of the same race. Now it's true that South also has diversity in its academic performance; realistically that comes with the territory when the student body contains everyone from really poor kids who have just arrived in this country, perhaps with little or no prior school experience, to kids from Kenwood who spend weekends skiing at the cabin in Aspen, to the kids who are homeless or are living in shelters, to the middle-class Seward kids with the professor parents. It's a pretty amazing place, and no parent need worry that their kid is getting a substandard education there. Quite the opposite. Of course it's also true that they will be exposed to a very diverse range of kids coming from a wide range of backgrounds. They will also see first-hand the unfortunate reality that in the Twin Cities there is a big achievement gap that tends to follow along racial and socioeconomic lines. But that is true in other schools, too. South (as just one example) has kids who drop out or who do poorly, but it's also big and diverse enough that it also has kids on the total other end of the spectrum, who thrive and who take all the college-prep courses and head to elite colleges. It is diverse in ALL senses of the word, and certainly more diverse than the vast majority of schools in the Twin Cities.

[northsub]

Originally Posted by glspringfield

Still more diverse than Springfield and, I would guess, moreso than any suburb up there. Are there any neighborhoods that you would suggest looking into?

The areas of St. Paul you seem to be looking at are marginally more diverse than Springfield, MO if you consider Hispanic as "not minority". If you consider the Hispanic population as "diverse", then you will find slightly more diversity in Springfield than the parts of St. Paul you are considering. Frankly, the areas of the core cities in the Twin Cities that are safe and with decent schools tend to be very white (generally 90+%).

You will find diverse and safe areas in many (most?) of the Twin Cities suburbs. You can find census tracts that are under 80% white in at least Plymouth, Blaine, Vadnais Heights, Oakdale, Woodbury, Inver Grove Heights, Apple Valley, Burnsville, Eagan, Bloomington, Shakopee, Eden Prairie, Roseville, New Brighton, Mouds View, Maplewood.

If you want actual data you can look to the census bureau. A nicer user-interface is the following link:
Mapping the 2010 U.S. Census - NYTimes.com

[rcsteiner]

Originally Posted by golfgal

The problem is not with you but with other posters here and their definition of diversity is what I was getting at. To many people a school that is 85% black is more diverse than a school with 85% of the students being white. Like I said, you will find the diversity you want at pretty much any school in the metro area, there is no need to settle for a substandard school just to add that part to your kids' education.

An interesting article from the Star-Tribune...Academic goals lowered, but Minneapolis still falls short | StarTribune.com

The problem with studies and test results like the link above addresses is that they concern system-wide or school-wide results.

Most parents are interested in individual results. They want to know how well their kid will be educated in a given school, and that's a somewhat different focus.

As has been shown down here in the Atlanta forum, as an example, some of the Atlanta Public School district schools are actually just as good or better, at least in a few cases, than most suburban schools down here if you're looking only at the results of certain demographic groups. You won't see that from a school-wide test results perspective, but if you look at the value for individual students, the quality can be very high.

That's why I have such an issue with the focus most people and organizations have on school-wide benchmarks. They tell a story, certainly, but they don't tell the whole story.

[glspringfield]

Originally Posted by northsub

Frankly, the areas of the core cities in the Twin Cities that are safe and with decent schools tend to be very white (generally 90+%).

That's what I was afraid of.

Originally Posted by northsub

You will find diverse and safe areas in many (most?) of the Twin Cities suburbs.

That's good to know. Where my wife attended high school, 15 miles outside of Springfield, there was literally one minority student when she was there. That was a number of years ago but might give you an indication ...

Thank you for those recommendations, northsub. I'm not sure that life in the 'burbs is what we're wanting but I also see that I shouldn't assume suburbs everywhere are nothing but affluent, white people.

[Min-Chi-Cbus]

Woodbury, Brooklyn Park, Roseville, Little Canada, Maplewood, etc. are examples of suburbs with a relatively strong Asian presence. You do not have to live IN the city to get that exposure in the Twin Cities. Of that bunch, I'd recommend Woodbury or Roseville over the others, and by a large degree. My buddy from China settled in St. Paul originally, then Edina, but his family ended up in Roseville (with a 2nd house in Eden Prairie in this little Asian enclave) and has stayed there since. Roseville is STILL mostly white but it has a very strong Asian presence AND it's close to EVERYTHING! Check it out!!

[Min-Chi-Cbus]

Originally Posted by glspringfield

That's what I was afraid of.



That's good to know. Where my wife attended high school, 15 miles outside of Springfield, there was literally one minority student when she was there. That was a number of years ago but might give you an indication ...

Thank you for those recommendations. I'm not sure that life in the 'burbs is what we're wanting but I also see that I shouldn't assume suburbs everywhere are nothing but affluent, white people.

Mpls South is a good high school and it's not 90% white (more like 50%-65%). Mpls Henry, even with its "bad" reputation, is another school that performs very well and is closer to 80% non-white. Mpls. Southwest is mostly white but not 90% white.

[northsub]

Originally Posted by Min-Chi-Cbus

Mpls South is a good high school and it's not 90% white (more like 50%-65%). Mpls Henry, even with its "bad" reputation, is another school that performs very well and is closer to 80% non-white. Mpls. Southwest is mostly white but not 90% white.

But the areas that get suggested to live in those school zones are at least 80% white and generally quite a lot higher %.

[golfgal]

Originally Posted by glspringfield

That's what I was afraid of.



That's good to know. Where my wife attended high school, 15 miles outside of Springfield, there was literally one minority student when she was there. That was a number of years ago but might give you an indication ...

Thank you for those recommendations, northsub. I'm not sure that life in the 'burbs is what we're wanting but I also see that I shouldn't assume suburbs everywhere are nothing but affluent, white people.

I've spent a lot of time in Missouri and outside of St. Louis proper, Missouri is far less diverse then the Twin Cities metro area. I think if you visit schools all over the metro you will see this. Your children won't be the "only" anything anywhere.

[xandrex]

Originally Posted by northsub

But the areas that get suggested to live in those school zones are at least 80% white and generally quite a lot higher %.

Might the direct living situation be less important than the school's diversity? It's true that many neighborhoods that are middle-class in Minneapolis and St. Paul are white...likely reflective of the fact that we are a very white metro and that minorities are far less likely to be middle class than their white counterparts. So while a student might live in, say, Kenwood, they would be spending most of their day at school in a place like South and aren't very far from pretty diverse neighborhoods. Suburbs and their schools have the same spread of primarily white neighborhoods (with minorities sprinkled in) as well as areas concentrated with more minorities. But because Minneapolis breaks it down by neighborhood, we can focus in on minute areas, whereas often in suburbs we don't have such ability (without looking at Census maps, at least).

That said, you'll be able to find plenty of diversity in most places in the metro. Obviously, the closer in you are, the more likely diversity (of all kinds) is likely to be play a factor. Minneapolis and St. Paul have some good schools and neighborhoods (Minneapolis Southwest and South, as well as St. Paul Central, are all rated as great schools) and there are several suburbs where education is top-notch and your kids will be exposed to at least as much diversity as what they're experiencing in Springfield.