From Europe to Minneapolis -HELP!

[golfgal]

Originally Posted by uptown_urbanist

What?? Can you not make up stories about me, please? I tend to take "walkability" to mean, well, "can I WALK to places?" Not just "can I put one foot in front of the other and wander around". And since the OP talked about sidewalks and cafes, I got the sense that she didn't just mean "walk around a subdivision and then go back home and get in a car to drive to the cafe." Now yes, we've disagreed about what makes a pleasant walking place; I seem to recall that you weren't at all bothered by the area around Southtown, so yes, perhaps I DO have a lower tolerance for heavy traffic, high speeds, and busy streets, but since those things are all also associated with pedestrian safety (I am guessing I put a LOT more miles on my shoes in a year, in both suburban and city neighborhoods, than do most of the people here), I think it's unreasonable. And yes, matter of opinion, but strip malls, big parking lots, sidewalks that often have no boulevard and no adjacent buffer parking land, and four lanes of speeding traffic don't really strike me as a pleasant walking experience. But hey, maybe it's just me. Maybe others find it invigorating to dodge fast-moving turners who aren't looking for pedestrians. And yes, I know that not all suburbs are bad for walkers -- when I talk about locations, I would NEVER lump ALL places into one. I can't imagine why the suburban boosters on the board do so; they MUST realize the differences by location, right? But many of the places that have been recommended have nothing to walk TO! They can walk the dog or maybe walk to the park, but seriously, no one moves to a subdivision in Eden Prairie because they look forward to evening strolls to their local sidewalk cafe!

And for what it's worth, while I do think Rosemount is more "walkable" than many of the suburbs discussed (as well as a LONG haul from the OP's work), but apparently not all residents think it's such a walker's utopia; according to the city's own pedestrian report Rosemount, MN - Official Website - Pedestrian and Bicycle Master Plan, only 1 out of 5 elementary or middle school kids living within a mile of school walk or bike to school, with safety concerns cited as the top reasons! (speed of traffic, volume of traffic, and safety of intersections, to be precise). And for such a walking city, walking and biking as transportation mode made up less than ONE percent of trips taken! No matter how you spin it, that's incredibly small -- doesn't sound like everyone is out there walking all the time after all. But that's not to pick on Rosemount -- I think it has more going for it than many suburbs, and what a great thing to actually have a pedestrian and biking plan in place as a framework for improvements. That puts Rosemount way ahead of the game.

And I'm not sure where one could possibly get the idea that Minneapolis doesn't have charm and community and mom-and-pop shops?!?

Right......"safety concerns" stem from people like you that won't let their kids cross at a street with a stoplight. Yes, the layout of the town would have some kids crossing busy streets, but they are still within a mile of school and a LOT of those kids still ride their bikes. Most kids in Minneapolis ride the bus too for the exact same reasons so get over it. Minneapolis does not have the corner of the market on walking. There are PLENTY of places to walk in ALL suburbs. Even many parts of Minneapolis are not at all walkable to YOUR definition. Would you get off it already and just admit you are wrong. Rosemount isn't "ahead of the game". They are on par with EVERY suburb I've lived in, visited, etc. You change your meaning to suit your needs. The fact of the matter is the OP doesn't want to LIVE in Minneapolis so stop suggesting it.

[uptown_urbanist]

OK, I was wrong! Every single one of the Twin Cities suburbs is a pedestrian UTOPIA! Walkers, you couldn't ask for anything better! High-volume, high-speed traffic is invigorating -- adds excitement to your day! And letting your kid dodge fast-driving turners who aren't watching for pedestrians is a valuable learning experience! And who needs sidewalks, anyway?

[iNviNciBL3]

The suburbs are good for going on walks, not so much for walking to the store or coffee shop.

[dravogadro]

Originally Posted by golfgal

Our town you see kids riding bikes, walking to the parks, walking to the store to get candy, riding bikes to school, big games of tag or whatever being played. There is no place in our town that is not safe to walk. We have a lot of charming mom and pop restaurants along with your typical McDonald's type places. You just don't find that kind of community in Minneapolis, period.

I just need to do this first:


Anyway, debating what walkability or livability means to n persons will result in n+1 opinions.

One of the key discussions in the Complete Streets movement was debating whether this meant there were specific infrastructure designs that needed to be implemented. A woman, who had a visual impairment, asked the crowd to imagine the road she lived on and whether it would be considered 'complete'. She described it as low-speed, low-traffic [crowd yes-ed]. She mentioned that it connected her easily to local businesses and the community [crowd yes-ed]. Then she mentioned that there were no sidewalks and it got eerily silent. No one said anything.

Eventually, she said most importantly that her street made her feel safe as well as many of those that lived (and walked) on it. It reminded everyone that you have to really look at the context of the area and not try to apply sweeping generalizations that you think may fit a design that you, personally, are most comfortable with.

[rcsteiner]

Originally Posted by iNviNciBL3

The suburbs are good for going on walks, not so much for walking to the store or coffee shop.

It all depends on where in the suburbs you live. There are areas here in the Atlanta suburbs where walking to the store, bars, and restaurants is a breeze, for example, and areas where all of those things are at least a mile away. Same with the Twin Cities ... when I lived in an apartment in east Bloomington, I could easily walk to a supermaket, a pizza place, a Subway, a wildlive preserve, North Stars games, and (eventually) the Mall of America.

[57special]

Both northern Edina and SW Minn are very unthreatening, have some of the best schools in the state, and are close to Golden Valley. Edina is a bit more sheltered, but SW Minny is pretty genteel. You might also want to check out the town of Wayzata and the village of Excelsior. They are further away from Golden Valley, but not terribly so. They are very walkable, and have a small town (albeit sophisticated) feel to them. Both physically beautiful.

All the above aren't cheap, but 450K should get you into something decent. All have at least good, if not great, public schools. Edina and SW Minny are very handy to the airport, if that matters to you. Wayzata, Edina, and SW are also a quick drive or bus to downtown... excelsior a bit less so.

The services in SW ( I.e. snow removal) aren't as good.

All of these areas are very nice. Minnesotans, are, in general. Hard to see your kids being intimidated by them.

[xandrex]

Originally Posted by Kayekaye

Having lived and worked in all areas of Minneapolis for many many years I know it intimately. It isn't just a whim that I recommend avoiding it. I think too many people find a safe block in the city and then project it onto the rest of the city romanticizing it. New movers to our area deserve and benefit from opposite viewpoints. The border on 50th and France is a world of difference that one doesn't understand if one hasn't lived on both sides, even though it's one block.

It's not just a whim that people recommend city neighborhoods. Nobody is suggesting the Near North neighborhood, are they? And most people on this city--suburbanites and urbanites alike--have plenty of experience living and working in various places throughout the cities and suburbs...so please don't pretend that you somehow have more wisdom than all of us uninformed people in the city who clearly are stuck here and not here by choice!

Huge swaths of the city are incredibly safe. Crime maps of Linden Hills don't look an awful lot different from maps of Edina, I'm guessing. In fact at one internship, I had to collect crime data around the city. There were the usual suspect neighborhoods where there would be violent crime, but the rest was pretty safe. Yes, some nuisance crimes in high-density areas like Uptown. But south of Lake was pretty quiet. I think I saw a handful of crimes anywhere near the lakes or Tangletown or south of 40/46th on the other side of the highway. Northeast was frequently pretty quiet. There is no small pocket where it's magically safe. People don't just stay in their homes. They get out and about. If the next block was horrible, they'd know as they'd be running into trouble themselves.

And are you really going to say that France is some Berlin Wall? I'm not quite sure what difference you're seeing that's so drastic. Doing even the most cursory Google Street View of the area about a block or two away from the commercial node in each direction shows nearly identical areas of clean streets, nicely kept (but usually modest) homes, etc. The area has money on both sides. Unless you know about some secret meth-cooking facility right on the Minneapolis side (after all, it's in city boundaries so it's "urban" and scary, right!?)

[Mplsite]

Ignore that Kayekaye joker. There are numerous largely residential neighborhoods in Mpls that best fit the bill. Hell, numerous St Paul neighborhoods on the west side very much fit the bill . If you want your kids to grow up with culture instead of having to find it on their own like I did in a bland, drive-thru/big box ridden suburb outside of Columbus, OH. In which case: save your kids from extreme boredom. I can't give you a good reason for why I didn't sniff glue for fun outside of finding the writings of the founding fathers to be too compelling. That and MK2 on SNES had all of the fatalities in their gory gloriness. Which I can't tell you how gratifying it was after walking back and forth on the top of the sofa for months with me and my brother waiting in anticipation.