Simple things that could save minneapolis from turning into another crime ridden city. (Golden Valley: low income, section 8)

[pirate_lafitte]

Originally Posted by Slig

Yes but you're basing that on the assumption that some people are hopeless from the beginning and I don't believe this is true. I believe everybody has the capability to be a lawful and contributing citizen, some people just veer off course, get involved with the wrong people or are disgruntled because something happened to them or somebody they care about. Maybe it was caused by chemical abuse, a gambling addiction, domestic abuse or neglect beginning at a young age, etc.

The point is, I believe that people are capable of recovering and turn their life around, and that is the attitude that should be displayed in our prisons and other rehabilitation facilities. But hey, that's just my 2 cents.

Rehbilitating a criminal is one thing alot of people don't think about. What I have noticed more and more in our society that as a whole, few people are interested in "rehabilitating" someone who has turned to crime. What I often see is that alot of people would rather just lock away the person and throw away the key and put the person in there like a pit. Basically, that is all the prison system really is, a pit. Few people are interested in rehab. They are more interested in keeping the criminal at arms length and less about making sure he or she doesn't do such a thing again. I was once mugged. The guys that were sent to jail, I sometimes wonder if they will turn their lives around or wind up going back to a life of crime. I think few people ask "how can we make sure this person doesn't committ anymore crimes" and alot of people ask(and only ask) "how secure can I make the jail so that we can keep the criminal there". I am not saying a criminal shouldn't be punished, because a crime does deserve punishment. With that said, a criminal should be rehabilitated and prepared for his/her release back into society.

[Veridian]

They try to make me go to rehab, but I won't go, go, go.

[Slig]

Originally Posted by Binky .357

Just cruise Lake Street after dark, or stop at the White Castle in St. Louis Park at around 3AM some time. They'll come out of the woodwork...

Oh really? Weird, I've been living a few blocks away from E Lake St for going on 8 months. During this time I have driven up and down the street more than 30 times after 9:00PM and I haven't seen a single person I could determine with little doubt to be a prostitute. I think you're living in 1995.

[Veridian]

Originally Posted by Slig

Oh really? Weird, I've been living a few blocks away from E Lake St for going on 8 months. During this time I have driven up and down the street more than 30 times after 9:00PM and I haven't seen a single person I could determine with little doubt to be a prostitute. I think you're living in 1995.

He's mortally terrified of coming into the city...actually of even entering the 494/694 loop. Yet somehow he knows where all the 'tutes are.

[Slig]

Originally Posted by Veridian

He's mortally terrified of coming into the city...actually of even entering the 494/694 loop. Yet somehow he knows where all the 'tutes are.

Ha, 'tutes. We call'em prostis.

[grandpa tweedle]

when you read minneapolis police reports (like the ones at minneapolis crime watch blog) and see that people are being arrested for robbery etc after more than 20-40 CAPRS (crimes against persons), i wish you would ask yourself very seriously: is there really any hope for this person? this seems like the definition of hopelessness to me. i mean, 40(!) crimes against persons and you think these people are still worth rehabilitating? if so, you are a liberal sucker and i hope someone beats you up someday and steals your laptop while you are blogging at the common roots cafe, which you rode to down the middle of lyndale on your vintage bike, holding up traffic. the people committing violent crime in the TC are doing it as a lifestyle and as pure racism, targeting white yuppie types. as long as people continue to puss around with these guys you will always have to worry. lock them up, make them disappear to prison until they are senior citizens. this is freaking minnesota. we should hold ourselves to higher standards.

[MN-Born-n-Raised]

Originally Posted by kuan

A strong social safety net tends to keep crime at bay.

I completely disagree. Look at Mexico. They live off of $1 per hour and don't steal from people. I have a home in Mazatlan and would feel comfortable to walk on ANY street at ANY time of the day. I'd crap my pants to walk along highway 55 at night by the projects. We gave them free housing and every other benifit like food stamps, too generous unemployment, free checks even if you don't live here, welfare, free medical, and list goes on. Safety net... Can we use that net to incarcerate them?

The problem is with some cultures. Those cultures don't parent because we allowed them to learn how not to work. We need inexpensive jails and Kid's need parents. Teachers are not parents. MPLS schools spend $13K per child and the results are well below average. It's the flawed culture because of the "compassion"!

[rcsteiner]

Originally Posted by pirate_lafitte

Rehbilitating a criminal is one thing alot of people don't think about. What I have noticed more and more in our society that as a whole, few people are interested in "rehabilitating" someone who has turned to crime. What I often see is that alot of people would rather just lock away the person and throw away the key and put the person in there like a pit.

It would be nice to toss younger prisoners into a military-style basic training program. That might teach them respect and discipline.

If there was some sort of job program to get them into after they served their time, maybe that would also help.

I'm really not sure, though, that the folks who keep in going through the system time and time again are good candidates for rehab. Is there any evidence or are there many examples of such folks successfully re-integrating into society?

[Camden Northsider]

Originally Posted by MN-Born-n-Raised

I completely disagree. Look at Mexico. They live off of $1 per hour and don't steal from people. I have a home in Mazatlan and would feel comfortable to walk on ANY street at ANY time of the day. I'd crap my pants to walk along highway 55 at night by the projects. We gave them free housing and every other benifit like food stamps, too generous unemployment, free checks even if you don't live here, welfare, free medical, and list goes on. Safety net... Can we use that net to incarcerate them?

The problem is with some cultures. Those cultures don't parent because we allowed them to learn how not to work. We need inexpensive jails and Kid's need parents. Teachers are not parents. MPLS schools spend $13K per child and the results are well below average. It's the flawed culture because of the "compassion"!

Yeah, Mexico doesn't have any crime. Try leaving your comfortable little touristy-resort paradise of Mazatlan and go walk around Tijuana late at night (anyone know if this is still the murder capital of the world?) - I'd be interested to see if your story changes.

Your little commentary on "culture" using phrases like "we allowed them" etc. reeks of a whole slough of "isms" - let's just hope your investments hold up in this market lest you find yourself ever having to use that safety net.

P.S. - What projects on Hwy 55? - there aren't any. Are you referring to the highrises that were razed 8 or 9 years ago and replaced by the (very nice) Heritage Park development?

[Camden Northsider]

Originally Posted by rcsteiner

It would be nice to toss younger prisoners into a military-style basic training program. That might teach them respect and discipline.

If there was some sort of job program to get them into after they served their time, maybe that would also help.

I'm really not sure, though, that the folks who keep in going through the system time and time again are good candidates for rehab. Is there any evidence or are there many examples of such folks successfully re-integrating into society?

Yeah, South Dakota really went wild with the whole "boot camp" for juveniles - the result: no changes in recidivism, a few kids died while doing some of their drills, and there were a number of other things going on that called into question whether the camps were humane or cruel and unusual punishment.

There are not many, if any, job training programs focused at youth ex-offenders in the area, but there are a small number of programs for adults - these will likely be rapidly dwindling in the current economy as people complain about funding for state "programs" that are too generous to poor people....the average cost of incarceration in the state of MN is around $120,000 person (30000/yr and average length of stay app 4 yrs). Think of what could happen if more of these funds were invested in job training, housing, and rehabilitation programs that helped people to become productive, TAX PAYING citizens again.

As to the revolving door - when someone is released, can't get a job, can't get housing, can't qualify for any assistance, doesn't have a support system, can't vote, etc. - there's not a lot of incentive to not re-offend. And I know of a number of people that were in and out of prison for years/ decades before finally gaining clarity in their lives and putting their past in the past for good (nonprofit "programs" usually helped them get there) - you'd be amazed to see what these once career criminals are now capable of and doing with their lives.