Simple things that could save minneapolis from turning into another crime ridden city. (apartment, safer)

[Veridian]

Originally Posted by MN-Born-n-Raised

I thought that the Fed's don't take any income for the 1st x amount of dollars. Same with the state. I know my 17 year old daughter doesn't pay federal and state taxes on her $5500 income. When you figure standard personal deductions, then even more $$'s are not paid on income.

So many low income families don't pay much taxes at all. For that matter, even "average" income of $40K doesn't pay anything close to these rates. Using your numbers (6.5% and 31%) that is 37.5% for state and federal or $15K in taxes for a $40K family. I'd doubt they pay $5K total when all is said and done. Any accountants on the forum can chime in. Oh, don't forget about social security which does add up.

Income taxes are not the only kinds of taxes that will come out of a paycheck. Many poor to medium income people pay as much or more in FICA taxes than they do income taxes. There are no FICA deductions- you are taxed from the very first dollar. There is, however, a FICA cap-forget the exact figure, but it's somewhere around the first $110,000 dollars of income. You pay no more FICA taxes on income beyond that first chunk, so in other words it is wildly regressive.

I'm always amazed when people attack a progressive tax, yet completely ignore the nearly equal regressive tax.

[Clifford63]

Originally Posted by MN-Born-n-Raised

I thought that the Fed's don't take any income for the 1st x amount of dollars. Same with the state. I know my 17 year old daughter doesn't pay federal and state taxes on her $5500 income. When you figure standard personal deductions, then even more $$'s are not paid on income.

So many low income families don't pay much taxes at all. For that matter, even "average" income of $40K doesn't pay anything close to these rates. Using your numbers (6.5% and 31%) that is 37.5% for state and federal or $15K in taxes for a $40K family. I'd doubt they pay $5K total when all is said and done. Any accountants on the forum can chime in. Oh, don't forget about social security which does add up.

The last time I went through McDonalds, they didn't ask me how much I could afford to pay. If I didn't have the money, you don't get to work! While there are some who need the help because of situations beyond their control (and as a society we ALL want to help), there are far far too many people that are draining the system in epedemic proportions. When you get reduced housing, free medical, food stamps and welfare, you tend on having more kids beyond the under two per family average. Worse yet they don't pay into the tax system.

We have some tough decisions to make. But the current compassionate "plan" is making everything worse IMHO. Not only for the people who are really being taxed to death but the people on the system who lose hope by getting things for free. Gone are the days of personal responsibilities; especially in this fine state.

Are you saying 40K is average household income?

[Camden Northsider]

Originally Posted by knke0402

Minneapolis is very tame.
I was watching a show last night on TV, and the Officer said there were 14 Homocides in the SAME APARTMENT COMPLEX in the SAME year in 2008. This was in Kansas City, MO.

The show was first 48 on A&E.

Never seen the show, but they once filmed me for an episode that never, or possibly hasn't yet, aired (I didn't sign the release though so won't be on TV)....it's interesting that Minneapolis is a new location for them, you'd think there would be a lot better/ more fruitful metropolitan areas to pick for a show like this.

[Clifford63]

Originally Posted by Veridian

Income taxes are not the only kinds of taxes that will come out of a paycheck. Many poor to medium income people pay as much or more in FICA taxes than they do income taxes. There are no FICA deductions- you are taxed from the very first dollar. There is, however, a FICA cap-forget the exact figure, but it's somewhere around the first $110,000 dollars of income. You pay no more FICA taxes on income beyond that first chunk, so in other words it is wildly regressive.

I'm always amazed when people attack a progressive tax, yet completely ignore the nearly equal regressive tax.

There is also a maximum amount you can draw from Social Security. Once you reach the contribution level where you are eligble for maximum social security bennefit, they stop taking the tax it from your check. I believe it is 106K this year.

Basically if you make 106K, 109K or 20 Million, you get the same Social Security Check because you paid the same amount of taxes. How exactly is that regressive?

[MN-Born-n-Raised]

Originally Posted by Clifford63

Are you saying 40K is average household income?

I just looked. See http://www.city-data.com/city/Minnea...Minnesota.html

MN is at $55K (10th in the Nation). MPLS is at $44K. I think in the USA it is $42K.

[Clifford63]

Originally Posted by MN-Born-n-Raised

I just looked. See http://www.city-data.com/city/Minnea...Minnesota.html

MN is at $55K (10th in the Nation). MPLS is at $44K. I think in the USA it is $42K.

The link you are throwing up has 2001 data.

US Census has data from 2006 showing median household income for MN at 69K
Income - State Median Income

[MN-Born-n-Raised]

Originally Posted by Clifford63

The link you are throwing up has 2001 data.

US Census has data from 2006 showing median household income for MN at 69K
Income - State Median Income

Actually that link said 2007:

Estimated median household income in 2007: $44,423 (it was $37,974 in 2000)
Minneapolis: $44,423Minnesota: $55,802

[MN-Born-n-Raised]

Originally Posted by Veridian

Income taxes are not the only kinds of taxes that will come out of a paycheck. Many poor to medium income people pay as much or more in FICA taxes than they do income taxes. There are no FICA deductions- you are taxed from the very first dollar. There is, however, a FICA cap-forget the exact figure, but it's somewhere around the first $110,000 dollars of income. You pay no more FICA taxes on income beyond that first chunk, so in other words it is wildly regressive.

I'm always amazed when people attack a progressive tax, yet completely ignore the nearly equal regressive tax.

Business owners get the double Social Security tax up to the cap. Over the cap it continues at the same percentage up to your claimed income.

Re: taxes. The bottom line is when you give government your money, they will find a way to waste it. With the pending $5B MN shortfall, it will be interesting to see what they do when all is said and done. I need to get out before they try and tax my business even more.

Last time they had a shortfall (3 years ago) they tippled the auditors. I got a "random" audit on my sales tax for three years. Nearly every business owner that I knew got a visit. After I spend $10K with book keeping and accountant fees, the state got $256 because I didn't pay sales tax on an item I bought out of state. Speaking of which, did you know that it is the law that you have to pay MN sales tax on mail order product???

My guy was nice but one of my customers got an a**hole. His experience was a living nightmare. He had to hire accounts to protect not paying parts for his machines. The fees were horrendous but after several weeks of audits MN didn't get a nickel.

So let's see..... I do free accounting for the state and collect the funds. Later, if I submit the forms even a day late with my free accounting, I get a stiff fee. Worse yet, I pay 2% credit card fees on the sales tax so I actually lose dollars on every transaction to do their free accounting. If you collect $100K of taxes, you lose $2K (2%) on the amount. And then, they audit me for THREE years (not a sample on 1 year) just to make sure my free accounting work that I lose money on was done correctly without any respect for my time. Yea, MN nice"!

[Huckleberry3911948]

decriminalization of self defense. ban personal injury suits if injury occurs in the commission of a crime. the prisons will become empty.

[pirate_lafitte]

Originally Posted by Huckleberry3911948

decriminalization of self defense. ban personal injury suits if injury occurs in the commission of a crime. the prisons will become empty.

Sounds about right, except there are also other crimes to consider, like drug crimes. One of the biggest reasons prisons stay full is because of the drug crimes, especially crimes involving marijuana. Decriminalize maryjane and then the prisons will slowly empty.