West Saint Paul should be annexed to Saint Paul! (Minneapolis: hotel, houses)

[glendog]

West Saint Paul (and South Saint Paul) should be annexed to Saint Paul! Most people don't even recognize that these are technically other cities! I live just over a mile out of downtown Saint Paul, have a close up view of the downtown skyline and Cathedral of Saint Paul out my window but I'm in a separate city! Yet 8 miles waaaay out in the sticks or by the malls there are neighborhoods that are still technically part of Saint Paul?! It is truly bizarre that West and South Saint Paul haven't been annexed decades ago and that they aren't part of Saint Paul when in reality they are truly just neighborhoods of Saint Paul and actually much more so than many neighborhoods technically still in Saint Paul. WSP and SSP have far more in common with Saint Paul, historically, geographically, economically, socially, culturally, architecturally on and on than many of the outer neighborhoods of Saint Paul which are the true suburbs of the city. I say come on Saint Paul, annex them now!!

[golfgal]

Huh??? What parts of St. Paul are out by the "malls"? I think that most people that live in Minnesota, at least in the metro, are well aware that West. St. Paul, South St. Paul and North St. Paul are their own cities. The confusing one is "East St. Paul", which is really the east side which is part of St. Paul.

[glendog]

The parts way out by Sun Ray Mall and Maplewood, by the highway, and waaay out by Point Douglas road being much more like the "sticks" and suburban than my West St Paul neighborhood ...!
I was referring mostly to people outside of the cities, you know the people that refer to the entire metro area as "Minneapolis" But actually all my friends in Minneapolis have no idea what's going on over here much less that they are different cities.
Yes "East" St Paul doesn't even technically exist!

[xandrex]

Originally Posted by golfgal

Huh??? What parts of St. Paul are out by the "malls"? I think that most people that live in Minnesota, at least in the metro, are well aware that West. St. Paul, South St. Paul and North St. Paul are their own cities. The confusing one is "East St. Paul", which is really the east side which is part of St. Paul.

I think you mean that people who live in the Twin Cities know that they are separate cities (and even that's a stretch at times). If you ask anyone in Greater Minnesota if those are cities or neighborhoods of St. Paul, you'd likely get a lot of confused looks and people making guesses.

[glendog]

Exactly Xandrex! I work in Duluth and Bayfield Wisconsin. Here is an example of a recent conversation I had with a local up there:
"Well I was at the Cathedral of Saint Paul with my family and then I took them by the Capitol building in Saint Paul and then we had dinner in downtown Saint Paul before they went back to their hotel, the Saint Paul..."
"Oh it sounds like you all had a great time in Minneapolis..."

True Story!

[xandrex]

Originally Posted by glendog

Exactly Xandrex! I work in Duluth and Bayfield Wisconsin. Here is an example of a recent conversation I had with a local up there:
"Well I was at the Cathedral of Saint Paul with my family and then I took them by the Capitol building in Saint Paul and then we had dinner in downtown Saint Paul before they went back to their hotel, the Saint Paul..."
"Oh it sounds like you all had a great time in Minneapolis..."

True Story!

Eh, I grew up in Duluth and rarely heard "Minneapolis" mentioned. It was always the "Twin Cities" or just "the Cities". But people outside of the metro aren't going to know the intricacies of the suburbs.

That said, it seems to be a naming issue. Would we be asking this same question if these suburbs had names that didn't reference St. Paul?

[Asderfut]

I think the greatest impediment to this kind of consolidation is that St. Paul is the lower half of Ramsey County, so most nearby cities are over the county border. West and South St. Paul are both in Dakota County, St. Paul Park is in Washington County, and while North St. Paul is in Ramsey County, it's on the other side of Maplewood, another municipality.

On a separate note, I wholly support municipal consolidation. The joint issues of a small tax base and the mentality that issues to be addressed by a city government end at the municipal border greatly hamper actions to benefit the residents.

[golfgal]

Originally Posted by glendog

The parts way out by Sun Ray Mall and Maplewood, by the highway, and waaay out by Point Douglas road being much more like the "sticks" and suburban than my West St Paul neighborhood ...!
I was referring mostly to people outside of the cities, you know the people that refer to the entire metro area as "Minneapolis" But actually all my friends in Minneapolis have no idea what's going on over here much less that they are different cities.
Yes "East" St Paul doesn't even technically exist!

The parts "way out"? Really--Sun Ray is not far from Downtown and you don't have to cross a river to get there. If anything, West St. Paul should annex the south bluff of St. Paul that is just across the High Bridge.

[glendog]

Originally Posted by golfgal

The parts "way out"? Really--Sun Ray is not far from Downtown and you don't have to cross a river to get there. If anything, West St. Paul should annex the south bluff of St. Paul that is just across the High Bridge.

It's a heck of a lot farther out of downtown then West St Paul is! Like I said, it's 6-8 miles depending on route and locale from downtown vs just 1 1/2 miles to WSP!! That's what I was saying but it was just one of the littany of reasons why I am in favor of annexation. It's also waaay far out to us urban dwellers who cycle or walk everywhere. I am 5 minutes from Rice park in downtown by bicycle but Sun Ray would ake a heck of alot longer than that!The houses and development there are also much newer than where I am in West St Paul as well which is identical to the "area just across the high bridge" which you referenced, which for your information is known as the West Side. It is a neighborhood of Saint Paul and it is impossible to tell the difference between the North end of West St Paul and the West Side except for the street lights. As you go further out in WSP it becomes more modern and burby etc...Saint Paul should for sure annex up to Butler Street in WSP as it is totally a West Side neighborhood in every single regard and has much m ore in common with Saint Paul than it does with West St Paul or Hastings, waaay out in Dakota County! I mean I'm a mile from Ramsey County HQ in downtown and 20-25 miles through farm country to Hastings and Dakota County HQ. It makes no sense at all. Also, I've never heard of a city of 19k people annexing a neighborhood of an existing City of 285k but I guess it may have happened somewhere? It is extremely unlikely for that to ever happen, but just as a historical fun fact, the West Side area you referenced "Golf Gal" was actually the original City of West St. Paul and it was in fact annexed by the City of St. Paul in the late 1800's, just like the current City of West St. Paul should be! I really douby they are going to give it back now!

[glendog]

Originally Posted by xandrex

Eh, I grew up in Duluth and rarely heard "Minneapolis" mentioned. It was always the "Twin Cities" or just "the Cities". But people outside of the metro aren't going to know the intricacies of the suburbs.

That said, it seems to be a naming issue. Would we be asking this same question if these suburbs had names that didn't reference St. Paul?

I hear "cities" a lot of the time in Duluth as well but in Bayfield or further away from the cities and certainly out West in Seattle Portland it is 100% Minneapolis all the time, and never ever Saint Paul. I guess you've nailed my whole point, West St Paul isn't really a suburb in reality, only in name, it is absolutely very very 100% urban where I am on the North End, up to Butler Avenue. It is as urban as anywhere in Saint Paul proper and far more urban than St. Paul neighborhoods that are out 8 miles or so from downtown. That's my whole point. It shouldn't be a separate city and certainly isn't suburban at all here compared to say Point Douglas road which is almost 10 miles out of downtown but is technically still in St Paul but is actually totally rural compared my neighborhood, which is just 1 1/2 miles out of downtown. Everyone who visits me says "man you live right in the city, in downtown man...." Yet I am in a suburb not in Saint Paul? It's totally wrong and bizarre. The City of West St Paul treats us on the border with Saint Paul like West Siders as well so I think they'd be ok with letting us go with Ramsey County.
Not sure about the naming issue Xandrex but why is it a naming issue? I think because the reality is West St Paul really is just a neighborhood of Saint Paul and shouldn't be a separate city at all. Same for South St Paul again for all the reasons I've already mentioned. It is a fact that the original West St. Paul which is the current West Side neighborhood a block away from me in West St. Paul was annexed by Saint Paul so should the current city of West St. Paul. Annex away Saint Paul!!