Last thoughts of 5 years in Minneapolis before I leave the Midwest (Minnetonka: transplants, cliquey)

[Ghaukne]

So I was lucky enough to stumble on these forums and do some research before a move to Seattle. After garnering much great information before my move, I feel compelled to sdhare my experience here in Minneapolis after a 5 year stint. I’ve had some good, some bad, so here is my review if the area after 5 years.

First the good:
Best #1: Big city amenities, small town benefits. The nice thing about Minneapolis is that I can go to a Twins game, go skiing at Afton, see Lake Calhoun full of people and enjoy concerts any day of the week at First Ave. There was no chance of doing this inmy home of Fargo. Another great thing is that you can do this in Minneapolis without breaking the bank or worrying about safety like you would in say Chicago or NYC. I can still get Thai, Sushi, and Italian or fancy Gastropub fare any day I choose. We have the light rail, and also an international airport. Rents are not cheap, but they aren’t bad either.

Best #2: The lakes, trail system, parks and outdoors. Minneapolis has definitely got it going on for a lake and park system. My road bike has proven invaluable as I am able to use the trail system to get around all the scenic Grand Rounds routes and see the lakes. Plus, we have Minnehaha, a great gem. Anotyher great feature is that you can hit Buck Hill or Afton in a relatively quick drive. People in Chicago or NY can’t enjoy this.

Best #3: Jobs. For a professional, we have a high concentration of Fortune 500 companies. That’s why I moved here (and why I’m moving to Seattle). Our unemployment is low and I think that would have to go in my top 3. There is a hard work ethic here, people show up on time, and most people are fairly educated (note: educated and intelligent are two entirely separate things!). Being abl;e to find work as a professional is quite hard in Fargo, here its much easier.

Now the bad:
Worst #1: The weather. Yes, some of you don’t mind it, some of you “like the seasons.” I’ve never heard anyone say in late January in the office “Man its beautiful today.” Never heard that, ever. My most striking point of deciding to move was going to run around Calhoun in late October. It was pretty much empty, a few souls and their dogs. Contrast that to last week where its crowded with smiling kids and people getting on paddle boats. I know Seattle weather has a bad rep, but I went there in March, it was 55 and everyone was getting out the kayaks for the lake. That doesn’t happen here, I’m sorry.

Worst #2: MN Nice. People are reserved and generally think anything past small talk is weird. That’s the vibe I get. Give directions anywhere but back to your house. In my 5 years here, my best friend was made while on a bus in Cancun. He was a transplant from Green Bay. The only non-work and non-family friends who showed up to my going away party were transplants from Iowa and Michigan. You already have your cliques, family, and limited time, and I get that. But I don’t get that whenever I visit Chicago.

Worst #3: Limited diversity. Yes, we do have a big Somali population. Yes, we do have a Hmong population. Yes Lake Street is like little Veracruz. But I can count on my hand the number of black people I see at Stella’s on a summer night and its usually only one hand if that. It’s not as white as Fargo but its pretty close. Races here don’t mix. My dad’s neighbors hook us up with Mexican BBQ in Houston, but they don’t seem to mix much. And I really wouldn’t want to be black here, man, dating would suck if you are trying to get a white girl from Edina or Minnetonka.

So there it is people. Not trying to bash any of you. It’s a hell of a lot better than Fargo, and I would consider returning at some point in time if the clouds of Seattle do me in. Your city has provided some fun, and some disappointment.

But in the end wherever you go, there you are

[Beenhere4ever]

People are reserved and generally think anything past small talk is weird. That’s the vibe I get

This I find funny. You get threads on the Seattle forum saying the exact same thing. I have no concept what a "vibe" is. You can't jump into dirty laundry until you've developed some basis of confidence. If for any reason, that didn't happen, yes, you'll get the reaction that is normal for inappropriate behavior. And I've seen plenty of inappropriate behavior over the years. In America, people tend not to know anyone very well. You need to stick in one spot with people who knew you as a young child. For many different reasons, that doesn't happen in America. And then when people arrive in a new environment, they will judge people according to standards from somewhere else and find the people wanting if they do not meet those standards. I've run into that. A lady from Buffalo felt people were hostile for not meeting her eyes. She grew up with that sort of social aggressiveness. She didn't find it here. She hadn't the self-knowledge to understand the judging she was doing.

Anyway, don't think when you move you'll find it suddenly easier. If you search "freeze" on the Seattle forum, you'll find pages and pages of threads: Is there anyone who isn't so RUDE? How to make friends? :/

[Globe199]

Part of the problem is that it's not easy to make close friends when you're an adult, no matter where you live. That time is college and earlier it seems.

[Ghaukne]

Originally Posted by Beenhere4ever

Anyway, don't think when you move you'll find it suddenly easier. If you search "freeze" on the Seattle forum, you'll find pages and pages of threads: Is there anyone who isn't so RUDE? How to make friends? :/

Oh, I know. I researched the Seattle thread in much detail. I had to laugh because at points I thought they were talking about MN, or Fargo with the "Official Seattle Freeze" thread. I will say Minneap is less cliquey than Fargo, or small towns in the upper Midwest by far.

After college it does get tougher for sure, but considering all my friends in Minneapolis are transplants, and Seattle has more transplants, it can't be any worse. I would've preferred Chicago, as I do actually have a much easier time there, but that's not where the job was. Worst case MN isn't going anywhere, and neither are most of the people I know.

[wushuliu]

Originally Posted by Ghaukne

I know Seattle weather has a bad rep, but I went there in March, it was 55 and everyone was getting out the kayaks for the lake. That doesn’t happen here, I’m sorry.

Well I think there's a reason Seattle has such a high suicide/depression/drug abuse rep: the weather. You think you prefer it now, but when that oppressive gray sits on top of your head day after day while the drizzle keeps falling and falling and falling until you just want it to just storm and get it over with - which won't happen - and you find that you're constantly clammy and wet and moist and chilly for 7mos out of the year...
It's like water torture (no pun intended). Seattle and portland get 47% sunshine per year vs. 58% for Mpls. You'll miss that 10%!

I'd rather take straight up freezing. You can still get some sunshine, or actual light. The air is dry, and the cold can be invigorating.

As for MN Nice, I also think Seattle isn't exactly a 180 in that dept. I know a bunch of really great people in Seattle but I don't think they'd be any easier to meet than in MN. Of course, this depends on the crowd. In general though Mpls IS a hard place to meet people compared with say Los Angeles.

Don't know about the black man w/ Edina lady part. I think that's just part of strange Mpls demographics - the other cultures are so large in comparison that the Af-Am community doesn't seem to stand out as much. As a black man myself most of my dating in Mpls was interracial and I knew other interracial couples. Again, depends on the crowd you hang with I suppose.

Seattle from my experience is not much different. Af-Am representation was kind of sparse to my eyes. Especially in the hipper areas Ballard, Capitol Hill, West Seattle, etc...

I live in Los Angeles now and frankly, Los Angeles is MUUUUUCH more segregated than Mpls. Mpls wins on diversity hands down vs. LA.

[Globe199]

Originally Posted by wushuliu

Well I think there's a reason Seattle has such a high suicide/depression/drug abuse rep: the weather.

Bigtime myth. Seattle isn't even in the top 15 cities.

The 15 Most Suicidal Cities In America - Business Insider

[wushuliu]

Originally Posted by Globe199

Bigtime myth. Seattle isn't even in the top 15 cities.

The 15 Most Suicidal Cities In America - Business Insider

That's why I said 'rep' (but note it's #6 for depression). My gf is from Seattle so I've gotten to spend some time there. It's a great city no question - and it is BEAUTIFUL for 5mos of the year. Not to mention the outer towns like Snoqualmie etc. are beyond gorgeous.

But the price to pay for all that lush green majesty is the wet weather and it's something that can be just as difficult to handle as a MN winter is all I'm saying.

[Globe199]

Originally Posted by wushuliu

That's why I said 'rep' (but note it's #6 for depression). My gf is from Seattle so I've gotten to spend some time there. It's a great city no question - and it is BEAUTIFUL for 5mos of the year. Not to mention the outer towns like Snoqualmie etc. are beyond gorgeous.

But the price to pay for all that lush green majesty is the wet weather and it's something that can be just as difficult to handle as a MN winter is all I'm saying.

But calling it the "price to pay" is extremely subjective. The Seattle metro is growing faster than the Twin Cities. Evidently the wet weather doesn't bother that many people.

Seattle gets less rain per year than New York, Miami, Houston, Boston:

http://www.visitseattle.org/Essentials/Weather.aspx

[Ghaukne]

Originally Posted by wushuliu

Well I think there's a reason Seattle has such a high suicide/depression/drug abuse rep: the weather. You think you prefer it now, but when that oppressive gray sits on top of your head day after day while the drizzle keeps falling and falling and falling until you just want it to just storm and get it over with - which won't happen - and you find that you're constantly clammy and wet and moist and chilly for 7mos out of the year...
It's like water torture (no pun intended). Seattle and portland get 47% sunshine per year vs. 58% for Mpls. You'll miss that 10%!

I'd rather take straight up freezing. You can still get some sunshine, or actual light. The air is dry, and the cold can be invigorating.
.

And for the weather part - I can see this, I am going to see how much the overcast gets to me. I don't really care about the rain. We've had a fair share this year here and I don't mind it. everyone has what they hate, and for me it is the bitter cold. I just pretty much hate life from January to February here. Its so bad I won't even go out side, I have no desire to feel it when its -10. It does invigorate me to get back inside When it snowed in May, that was the last straw. Now, IF you can take the cold or like it, MN is probably great! I however, am a pu**y and cannot.

As to Seattle vs. Minneapolis, overall yes, I'm not expecting a world of change. The 10% pay increase and the milder winters are what I am hoping makes the difference. They seem fairly comparable. I'm hoping the lower ratio of townies makes it a little better socially but in the end the burden rests on the one wanting to socialize.

[wushuliu]

Originally Posted by Globe199

But calling it the "price to pay" is extremely subjective. The Seattle metro is growing faster than the Twin Cities. Evidently the wet weather doesn't bother that many people.

hence the words 'can be just as difficult', not IS just as difficult. I don't think 'price to pay' is that subjective though. That's just nature. To get all that great green amazing landscape you have to put up with a LOT of rain and cloudy weather. Not everyone is up for that. There is nothing controversial about that perspective.

The growth rate has nothing to do with anything. They are in totally different parts of the country with a host of different factors affecting who is coming and going.