Has increased ethnic diversity improved the quality of life of Minneapolis/Minnesota? (Grant: environment)

[kuan]

Originally Posted by starbuckstasty

It's pretty bad when everyone at McDonalds doesnt speak english. Not even the managers!! I'd say it's changed 100% from 15 years ago here in the metro area. Im movin!

Funny how McDonald's is always villified for having non English speaking workers but one never hears of anyone complaining about African or Vietnamese restaurants.

[gopher38]

My vote would be no.

First, there's diversity and there's diversity. A japanese doctor brings diversity. So does a plumber from Poland. But they bring other baggage also. Indian immigrants bring diversity to California, but they also have average incomes higher than the state average. The fact is, much of Minnesota's diversity in the last three decades has come from three sources: Laos, Somalia and Mexico. Two of those areas count, quite literally, amongst the poorest regions on the planet. There are immigrants coming from Somalia that don't know how to use a phone. Many of them will never compete in the workplace, and their offspring will likely be handicapped for many generations. My impression is that Mexican immigration has been much more positive.

Second, in my opinion, urban sprawl has been one of the biggest problems in the Twin Cities over the last 20 years. Much of that has to do with poor urban planning, but I'd guess that a lot of the population growth (which obviously plays a role) has been directly related to immigration.

Third, and this is what bugs me the most about the immigration situation today, is that it's so undemocratic. Slight digression - I lived in SF for a number of years. My best friend from high school (Minnetonka) was a performance artist there, so I got to meet a bunch of his friends. Let me tell you, you'd have a hard time finding a more leftist group than the young artists in SF. I met many, many people there who wanted completely open borders - anyone who wants to settle in the US should be allowed to. I always said to them (and with sincerity) that I personally think that's a stupid, naive suggestion, but that if they could get 51% of the people to consistently vote that way (i.e. not just a one-time poll), then I'd think that's exactly what the US should do, because we're supposed to be living in a democracy. Now, if you're really interested, there are internet sites out there now that collect poll data on subjects going back for a few years, and the US public has been consistently (for decades) for harsher control of illegal immigration, and even mostly in favor of dropping current legal immigration levels. But there seems to be an unholy alliance between big business who wants cheap labor, and the leftist one-world'ers and their media supporters, that stops any changes from happening. I can't think of another issue where the will of the people has been so consistently ignored.

So, in short, no, it hasn't improved the Twin Cities, in my opinion.

[Camden Northsider]

Originally Posted by gopher38

My vote would be no.

First, there's diversity and there's diversity. A japanese doctor brings diversity. So does a plumber from Poland. But they bring other baggage also. Indian immigrants bring diversity to California, but they also have average incomes higher than the state average. The fact is, much of Minnesota's diversity in the last three decades has come from three sources: Laos, Somalia and Mexico. Two of those areas count, quite literally, amongst the poorest regions on the planet. There are immigrants coming from Somalia that don't know how to use a phone. Many of them will never compete in the workplace, and their offspring will likely be handicapped for many generations. My impression is that Mexican immigration has been much more positive.

Second, in my opinion, urban sprawl has been one of the biggest problems in the Twin Cities over the last 20 years. Much of that has to do with poor urban planning, but I'd guess that a lot of the population growth (which obviously plays a role) has been directly related to immigration.

Third, and this is what bugs me the most about the immigration situation today, is that it's so undemocratic. Slight digression - I lived in SF for a number of years. My best friend from high school (Minnetonka) was a performance artist there, so I got to meet a bunch of his friends. Let me tell you, you'd have a hard time finding a more leftist group than the young artists in SF. I met many, many people there who wanted completely open borders - anyone who wants to settle in the US should be allowed to. I always said to them (and with sincerity) that I personally think that's a stupid, naive suggestion, but that if they could get 51% of the people to consistently vote that way (i.e. not just a one-time poll), then I'd think that's exactly what the US should do, because we're supposed to be living in a democracy. Now, if you're really interested, there are internet sites out there now that collect poll data on subjects going back for a few years, and the US public has been consistently (for decades) for harsher control of illegal immigration, and even mostly in favor of dropping current legal immigration levels. But there seems to be an unholy alliance between big business who wants cheap labor, and the leftist one-world'ers and their media supporters, that stops any changes from happening. I can't think of another issue where the will of the people has been so consistently ignored.

So, in short, no, it hasn't improved the Twin Cities, in my opinion.

First off, the persons you are referring to as being the three largest immigrant groups (Hmong, Somlalian, or Mexican) would, with (currently) the exception of Mexicans, primarily be refugees coming to the the US to seek refuge/ asylum. Currently there are very few new refugees coming to Minnesota, and to my knowledge, MN is currently a "family reunification" state only in terms of accepting refugees (although I think there may be special exceptions with the Karen from Burma and possibly another group) - this means that the refugees that are currently coming are doing so to reunite with immediate family members that are already settled in MN...outside of this, other refugees new to MN would be part of a "second migration", e.g. they moved to MN from another state in the US, and because MN is known as a friendly and accepting state (with established immigrant/refugee populations), this can be a considerable number. But as for new refugees coming to MN, the numbers are very dimunitive.

As for immigration standards, these are dictated by the Feds, and of the immigrants coming to MN are persons that are part of the Diversity Lottery (DV) Visa program, where the US annually accepts a certain amount of (generally) skilled immigrants to come to the US - persons accepted through DV lottery (randomly selected) must have (1) a sponsor living in the area they are relocating to, (2) a minimum of a HS diploma in their home country and (3) a stable/ minimum 2 year work history (ever heard of brain drain? - England has a similar 'programme' called HSM, or "highly skilled migrant"). In Minnesota, probably the largest DV group that comes here are persons from Ethiopia and in general (although not always the case), this population comes with higher levels of education, often times BAs or higher (and the university system in ethiopia utilizes English for coursework) and a variety of skilled experiences. Unfortunately, many employers either discriminate or don't recognize this education/ experience despite that it can often times be on par with western educational standards.

[gopher38]

Yes, I'm aware that immigration is handled at a national level. So what?

Regarding the employability of our current immigrants, I'd be interested to see what the breakdown of the US immigration numbers look like. I worked in France for several years, where immigration was also a hot topic in the last election, and during which it came out that only 5% of immigrants to France come with work visas. The rest are family reunification, refugees, asylum seekers, regularized illegals, etc. I'd be interested to see if it's much higher in the US. And by the way, I personally would reexamine the family reunification laws. Like I said, I think that the majority should decide (which I don't think it does today), but I personally would limit it to immediate family (spouse and minor children, perhaps parents).

[MNNative]

Originally Posted by AQUEMINI331

You know, there's two sides to this. My mother is an immigrant and has been here for over 25 years now and is in some ways Americanized, but in many ways she is not. Why? Well for starters she moved here when she was about 30 years old - don't you think people are pretty much set in their ways, or at least in their culture/language/belief systems, etc. by that age? Of course. Many times it's not that immigrants don't *want* to change, but it's very hard for them to. At the end of the day you have to be yourself, for better of for worse.

I understand both sides of the argument and at the same time I feel like some people in this country are just so unsympathetic to the needs, concerns, and feelings of people who are different from them.


_

My family moved here from Italy in 1980. I am the only one born in the U.S. and I think because of this I have a "soft spot" for those people who come across the world in search of something (in my family's case they came for employment). Yes, I understand that many times people come for "free opportunities" and "hand outs" and I completely agree that is wrong.

I find that many times if you're an immigrant or a race different than the "thinker" then that's the first thought that crosses people's minds, even if it's "unintentional" it silently creeps by before anything else. (Blacks have opinions about whites, whites of black, etc etc) I know that despite how open minded I want to be and feel I am, I've been guilty of locking my doors at the first sight of a group of black guys in Mpls. It's what I've been subconsciously taught, through the media, other people's perceptions, etc. Of course immediately after doing that my husband shot me a disappointed look and I immediately became aware of what I'd done...it's programming. (I honestly do not harbor offense towards any race...I have a Somali family as neighbors, a Russian family next door, Asians a few down...my apt complex hallway is a melting pot and we all get along great! And for the record, they all have jobs and work hard and have the same issues that home-grown MN seem to have.)

Anyhow, my point is my family came here for something more and everyone has adapted and struggled and I get so offended for them when I get a call from my mom and she tells me she was crying at work because some customer made her feel horrible. There are times people complain to management because they don't like the woman with the accent. (She still has a rich Italian accent.) But we're lucky because as far as I can remember most comments from people are that I have a fantastic mom and she's such a great person. So luckily the "bad apples" are few and far between. That doesn't mean it doesn't hurt. She has had the hardest time of my family members fully integrating...she hangs an American flag on her living room wall, it's not that she doesn't want to be American, it's just that like Aquamini331 says, the reason the older people have the most trouble is because they've had longer learning their old ways...younger people adapt faster because it soon becomes all they know. She didn't have an extensive education in Italy (at least not one that would translate to much here in America) so her employment options were limited. I wonder if that isn't the case for many people.

Crime tends to follow diversity because it follows poverty and that is probably a result of not being allowed the same opportunities as others. (Don't get me wrong, Indians and Chinese and Japanese are HIGHLY educated...take note that those ethnicities tend to do well here in America because of that...) I'd advise you all not to be quick to assume that people, no matter how different or where they have come from, are all out to rob, cheat and take advantage of this great state (and country for that matter).

[pirate_lafitte]

Originally Posted by MNNative

My family moved here from Italy in 1980. I am the only one born in the U.S. and I think because of this I have a "soft spot" for those people who come across the world in search of something (in my family's case they came for employment). Yes, I understand that many times people come for "free opportunities" and "hand outs" and I completely agree that is wrong.

I find that many times if you're an immigrant or a race different than the "thinker" then that's the first thought that crosses people's minds, even if it's "unintentional" it silently creeps by before anything else. (Blacks have opinions about whites, whites of black, etc etc) I know that despite how open minded I want to be and feel I am, I've been guilty of locking my doors at the first sight of a group of black guys in Mpls. It's what I've been subconsciously taught, through the media, other people's perceptions, etc. Of course immediately after doing that my husband shot me a disappointed look and I immediately became aware of what I'd done...it's programming. (I honestly do not harbor offense towards any race...I have a Somali family as neighbors, a Russian family next door, Asians a few down...my apt complex hallway is a melting pot and we all get along great! And for the record, they all have jobs and work hard and have the same issues that home-grown MN seem to have.)

Anyhow, my point is my family came here for something more and everyone has adapted and struggled and I get so offended for them when I get a call from my mom and she tells me she was crying at work because some customer made her feel horrible. There are times people complain to management because they don't like the woman with the accent. (She still has a rich Italian accent.) But we're lucky because as far as I can remember most comments from people are that I have a fantastic mom and she's such a great person. So luckily the "bad apples" are few and far between. That doesn't mean it doesn't hurt. She has had the hardest time of my family members fully integrating...she hangs an American flag on her living room wall, it's not that she doesn't want to be American, it's just that like Aquamini331 says, the reason the older people have the most trouble is because they've had longer learning their old ways...younger people adapt faster because it soon becomes all they know. She didn't have an extensive education in Italy (at least not one that would translate to much here in America) so her employment options were limited. I wonder if that isn't the case for many people.

Crime tends to follow diversity because it follows poverty and that is probably a result of not being allowed the same opportunities as others. (Don't get me wrong, Indians and Chinese and Japanese are HIGHLY educated...take note that those ethnicities tend to do well here in America because of that...) I'd advise you all not to be quick to assume that people, no matter how different or where they have come from, are all out to rob, cheat and take advantage of this great state (and country for that matter).

I'm going to thank you for being brutally honest. After hearing this, part of me wants to be mad because I think "What is that was me walking home on any given night?", because I don't have a car. Another part of me sympthizes with your quest not to be judgemental of others and to judge the individual.
You couldn't have said it better about crime. The reason crime has followed diversity in MN is because poverty comes with it too. Whenever you have a migration of the poor, criminals sometimes get in there too. Just handle the criminals like regular criminals.

[JenLee]

I have learned so much from people of diverse ethnicities here in the Twin Cities.

As a nurse working here I've cared for patients from well over 100 different countries around the world. I've cared for Russian Jews, Greeks, Italians, Spaniards, Mexicans, many different nationalities from South America, Hmong, Vietnamese, Chinese, Latvian, Irish, British, Canadians, Aussies, Ethiopians, Somalis, etc. They ALL LIVE HERE in MN!

I know people outside of work from Tibet, Iran, Laos, Thailand, Vietnam, Camaroon, Guana, Scotland, India, and many other countries who also all live here in MN.

I spent part of the weekend at 3 different events where I was with many different nationalities. To sit down and talk with immigrants from across the world and hear their stories and what they did to finally get to live in Minnesota makes me feel so lucky to have been born and raised in the US and not have to go through the same struggle.

MN has the one of the highest Hmong populations in the US, and that is true of the Somalis and the Tibetans also. If we could each sit down and talk to some immigrants on a one-to-one basis I think it would make such a difference in how we view ethnic diversity. As long as we keep viewing others as being different from ourselves, we will hold on to those prejudices.

[Tarheelhombre]

What percentage of the Minnesota population is non-White?

[MNNative]

Originally Posted by Tarheelhombre

What percentage of the Minnesota population is non-White?

Minnesota QuickFacts from the US Census Bureau

[MinnesotaMarvin]

Originally Posted by Tarheelhombre

What percentage of the Minnesota population is non-White?

86.3% white
4.1% black
3.6% hispanic
3.4% asian
1.1% native american
1.5% mixed race
1.8% other

According to the 2005 racial composition

As you can see white is still the overwhelming majority but other races are are obviously making their presence felt in different ways. Some good some bad.