Does the German and Scandinavian influence in Minnesota create a cold, stoic and aloof culture?

[taysantanamama]

I have been reading these threads recently about Mn's being cold, stoic, falsely nice, "minnesota nice" and wanted to put my two cents in. I want to stress this is my diagnosis of me, but it may ring true to other Mns too, maybe very broadly. I lived in Mn all my life, a typical MN mutt, 1/4 each Finnish, Norwegian, Swedish and German. Born and raised in northcentral MN, lived in Ely for 2 years for college, Duluth for 11, White Bear Lake for 3 and now live in Hawaii. I have always enjoyed my existance as what I jokingly called anti-social. I enjoyed spending time with my family, at home, keeping to myself. I had work friends, but never got together outside of work, I had aquaintences from the kids' schools and hockey, but never got together, I enjoyed small talk with my daycare provider when dropping off and picking up my daughter, but never got together outside of daycare, and that was fine. I would small talk and wave to my neighbors when we were doing yardwork outside, but we never had coffee and I didn't even know their names. And I didn't mind that at all, and was most definately not being a snob or cold. If any of us outwardly looked like we needed help, we would help eachother. First declining, then accepting but only with an offer to pay, or at least re-pay the favor, and when I am the recipient of a helping hand, I feel uneasy.

I don't like being what I consider a "bother". I think it goes back to my grandparents, passed down to my parents, past down to me. Maybe it is a MN mutt thing, maybe just how my grandparents were, but we are very self-sufficient people. My grandpa died when my dad was 10, leaving 6 kids, including 2 under 2yrs old. I remember my grandma saying when recalling those days, that she would work 10 jobs before getting welfare. She worked 3. She said it was so hard to accept help, and people knew how proud she was, they would leave things from their gardens and venison in the night so she wouldn't refuse. She spent her retirement volunteering because she figured she might be helping someone who helped her. My dad would never ask anyone for help(but family) but would jump to help anyone else, and now I am that way. I think that maybe pride and self-sufficiency is misread as stoicness(is that a word)in Mns. And maybe to a fault, we think others are like us. That if someone looks like they need help, we will by all means help, but to ask is to make them uncomfortable. On a broader spectrum, when our scandi/german ancestors came here, they often came alone, worked hard to create a new life, alone, with no help, not expecting any help, and then family came later. They didn't rely on others, they carved out lives from nothing, and perhaps that stoicness is the reason we are here. It got us thru some very lonely, hard times.

When we moved to White Bear Lake, as soon as we pulled up in our car, not moving truck, so we really didn't outwardly look like we needed help, a woman came up and said "I'm (no name), I live 2 doors down, if you ever need any help, just let me know." She was from Seattle. It made me feel really uncomfortable, because I hate to be a burden. And as far as not being social, I think, "who am I? am I so special that people would be exited to come over for coffee? i'm sure they can find something much better to do. besides, I have my family, I don't need anyone else to be happy." I am not affectionate outside of my family, I cringe when people want to hug me, but again, not because I am cold or unfriendly, it is just something in me(mostly the finnish part of me).

So for people coming into MN, be patient. Chances are you will not get a lot of invites for coffee, but not because we are unwelcoming. We tend to think that we love spending time with our families, not with others, maybe you share that philosophy too, who wouldn't. We don't want to assume that we are so wonderful that you would love to spend time with us, but if you invite us, we will oblige. And then we will have to repay the kindness, so we will invite you over, and after a few back and forths, we will be great friends.

[JenLee]

Originally Posted by Ben Around

Jen Lee, we would've been delighted to accept your invitation to dinner when we first moved to MN many years ago. If we would've had other plans, we would've said so. The only neighbors who welcomed us in a pro-active way were the middle aged couple across the street who came to our door, introduced themselves, and brought us a little vase of fresh-cut flowers. (But they weren't MN'ns--they were originally from PA). We've since gotten to know many wonderful MN'ns here, but I wish they would've made it a little easier for us to meet them!

Ben Around, think of the amount of emotional struggle that would have put us through: "What if we are bothering them?" "What if they have other plans?" The truth of the matter is that we usually give new neighbors a disposable plate or tray of coffee cake or cookies, etc. (after all, it would be presumptuous of us to give them a dish that they would have to return!); introduce ourselves and then back off so we aren't interfering with them!

I can laugh about how this all sounds to someone not raised this way; but this IS the truth about how many Minnesotans feel: we just don't want to force ourselves on other nor do we want them to feel "beholden" to us.

I think taysantanamama describes the exact same sentiments in his/her post.

[Ben Around]

Originally Posted by JenLee

Ben Around, think of the amount of emotional struggle that would have put us through: "What if we are bothering them?" "What if they have other plans?" The truth of the matter is that we usually give new neighbors a disposable plate or tray of coffee cake or cookies, etc. (after all, it would be presumptuous of us to give them a dish that they would have to return!); introduce ourselves and then back off so we aren't interfering with them!

I can laugh about how this all sounds to someone not raised this way; but this IS the truth about how many Minnesotans feel: we just don't want to force ourselves on other nor do we want them to feel "beholden" to us.

I think taysantanamama describes the exact same sentiments in his/her post.

Well, it was pretty hard on us the first year we lived here. My poor wife used to say "what's wrong with us?", wondering why few people talked to us or invited us over. I think it was the other non-MN'ns she met at work that clued her into the ways of the natives. She's cool with it now.

This phenomenon you guys are describing is pretty remarkable. On the one hand, it's the self-reliance, leave me alone, frontier mentality, but it's all mixed up with the let me help you, we're all in this together Scandinavian collectivist mentality! Nothing like it anywhere else that I've been!

[JenLee]

Originally Posted by Ben Around

Well, it was pretty hard on us the first year we lived here. My poor wife used to say "what's wrong with us?", wondering why few people talked to us or invited us over. I think it was the other non-MN'ns she met at work that clued her into the ways of the natives. She's cool with it now.

Sorry it was so tough on you at first; I'm glad you are figuring it out and realize that we Minnesotans are just crazybecause of our upbringing!

This phenomenon you guys are describing is pretty remarkable. On the one hand, it's the self-reliance, leave me alone, frontier mentality, but it's all mixed up with the let me help you, we're all in this together Scandinavian collectivist mentality! Nothing like it anywhere else that I've been!

Well, I think you will find the same mentality in North and South Dakota too. At least in the east to central parts of the states. I think it's due to the country AND the ancestors.

[sugarbeet]

While I don't disagree with the cultural reserve, I have to speak up in defense of our state and say that I had the exact same experience everywhere I've lived, not just Minnesota. Unless I was surrounded by Scandinavians in Rhode Island, New York, New Jersey, Michigan and Florida, I have a feeling that either people who complain about no one coming to their door here with a plate of cookies are one of the following: 1) first time relocators to a place where they don't know anyone or 2) have been lucky to have friendly neighbors in the past. Unless a person has made several moves, I'm not sure it's even fair to compare.

[nuevaluz]

I lived in Mpls. for 15 yrs, and worked for 11 of those yrs in St. Paul. During that time, I think I got to experience a pretty good cross section of the population. The stoicism was evident but not overwhelming. Actually, it was pretty easy forming close bonds with many of those same people. I found that the icy exterior, where it existed, was just a facade, and easily breached. I met a lot of wonderful people in the Twin Cities, quirks and all.