Activists want a new name for Lake Calhoun claim racism (Houston: purchase, utilities)

[lucky4life]

Originally Posted by Atalanta

In one sense, I get this.

In another sense I do not.

This is from the 1800's. This person.

It is just getting out of hand.
This racial stuff and digging and digging and drumming up stuff for a change.
Finding reasons that are so after the fact, then cry current racism



Activists want a new name for Lake Calhoun | Minnesota Public Radio News

Activists want a new name for Lake Calhoun

Contending that Lake Calhoun's name symbolizes slavery and racism, more than 1,000 people have signed a petition asking the Minneapolis Park and Recreation Board to rename the popular lake.

Lake Calhoun was named after John Caldwell Calhoun, a South Carolina statesman, former vice president, senator, secretary of state and proponent of slavery. He is infamously known for preaching slavery as "a positive good" in the 1800s.


The article goes on to more...........

it should be changed, but it might not be worth the cost unfortunately.

[Lodestar]

Originally Posted by AmorphicDN

Interesting thought. Creative. Insufficient to my mind, but well intentioned.

Dont have any idea what you mean by "No need to prescribe honoring or dishonoring. No free people need or want that."

As for Woody Allen, he's been condemned in public opinion largely, but not wholly and there's certainly been no confession or proof in a court of law. I dont happen to be a fan, but I also don't participate in witch hunts.

Back to the lake issue. There have been numerous comments in this thread about how the time and money spent on this could be better spent on other civic problems. I would point out that is not the way nature or societies work. Prioritization follows character as well as needs. For example, parents demand certain standards of behavior for themselves and their children in the home. The importance of chores and homework being done is no more important than respectful behavior to parents, siblings, visitors. Its all part of the fabric of respect and common goals. I have no problem with social drinking or even light, occasional marijuana use in the world around me by responsible adults. But I won't tolerate my kids wearing weed or Budweiser t-shirts or anything else that glorifies controlled substance use, or condones violence or bigotry, etc. The standards for respectful living come first as all actions follow that standard.

Now, was there something in what I have written that makes you think I don't see the issue?

"Don't have any idea what you mean by 'No need to prescribe honoring or dishonoring. No free people need or want that.'"

It's the generational inability to grasp the concept of freedom from government which is chilling.

[AmorphicDN]

Originally Posted by northsub

It never occurred to me that some people actually think it is more important to talk the talk than to walk the walk. That might make many people's priorities make a lot more sense.

I'd be interested to understand your comment but don't grasp it as written. Could you restate?

[AmorphicDN]

Originally Posted by Lodestar

"Don't have any idea what you mean by 'No need to prescribe honoring or dishonoring. No free people need or want that.'"

It's the generational inability to grasp the concept of freedom from government which is chilling.

So a Libertarian perspective then? Freedom from government is a neat concept, theoretically. The lack of its realization however is only chilling if you can't acknowledge reality, and persist in believing in fantasies about human nature instead.

As another poster in a different forum put it recently, 10,000 years of civilizations history proves that Libertarian concepts of individual responsibility and accountability dont work. As appealing as it is, if it could work it would exist. There simply isn't the necessary potential for cooperation among so many people with so many divergent beliefs and interests. The various views expressed even in this thread, many passionately given, would be a simplistic example.

Thus setting clear standards for respectful social behaviors is paramount to every action that follows.

[Atalanta]

Originally Posted by lucky4life

it should be changed, but it might not be worth the cost unfortunately.

Why do you believe it should be changed?

Then what do we change next?
This is affirming this activist over sensitive digging up stuff. And playing victim.

Look, I am a female approaching 50.
I'm sure there are 100's of things named around me after men who didn't stand up for womens rights 100 or 200 years ago.
But I am not going to go looking for them
And I am not going to demand such a silly thing.

I keep my head high and realize the changes for the better, and of The great men of today.
And how it has gotten better.

I am not so important that I would demand a city spend their resources on changing a name.

[northsub]

Originally Posted by AmorphicDN

I'd be interested to understand your comment but don't grasp it as written. Could you restate?

You had stated that you were less concerned about your kids seeing adults use marijuana than wearing a shirt with marijuana on it. To me that feels backwards. I'm much more concerned about the action of (illegally) using marijuana than what feels like a symbolic gesture of wearing a shirt.

Another example I can think of is people who buy a hybrid car and drive it maybe 2,000 miles a year. From my point of view this feels counterproductive even from an environmental standpoint. The extra materials for the battery and such aren't worth the environmental benefit if you don't drive the car very much at all. From my point of view it seems that the buyer seems hypocritical, but if the buyer places a much larger value on "showing they care" than on any tangible environmental benefit that may make sense to them. I've always assumed the buyer didn't really care about the environment, but had some other motivation (typically a desire to fit into a group, sort of like buying designer jeans). Maybe the buyer does care about the environment, just in a very different way than I do.

I'm still playing around with this idea in my head. To me it seems like phrases like "actions speak louder than words" are just inherently obvious. Maybe others actually disagree?

[pvoyd]

Originally Posted by AmorphicDN

As another poster in a different forum put it recently, 10,000 years of civilizations history proves that Libertarian concepts of individual responsibility and accountability dont work.

98-99% of the 10,000 years of civilization prove that the concepts of representative government, independent press and judiciary, etc. do not work.

[Ghengis]

Lake Traitorous Racist Bastard should be re-named to the Dakota named: Mde Maka Ska to not only pay honor to the original lake namers, but because I always liked Prince Buster, The English Beat and UB40 and they deserve some recognition.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?featur...&v=rvraAY_lL0A

[Cushman K. Davis]

It should be changed because aside from the racism the guy is a footnote in history with marginal ties to Minnesota, who never set foot in Minnesota or saw the lake named after him and doesn't need to be commemorated in this state at all.

If the lake was named "Lake Morton" after Levi Morton the 22nd VP of the USA who once allocated $75,000 to supplies for Fort Snelling and someone petitioned to name it to Lake Puckett, nobody would be against the name change aside from maybe a nearby business named Morton's Cyclery, who just spent $8000 repainting their sign.

Which makes one wonder about the real reasons behind the anti name change comments. If you click through to the author's posting histories, the majority seem to be from the suburbs, St. Paul, and even from out of town. These posters have no skin in the game. Why would such people care about the name of a lake they probably have never even visited? Why are they fervently opposed to dropping the name of an unabashed white supremacist and vocal proponent of slavery, when if the lake was named after a non-racist nobody, they would not have an opinion?

[Glenfield]

Originally Posted by Ghengis

Lake Traitorous Racist Bastard should be re-named to the Dakota named: Mde Maka Ska to not only pay honor to the original lake namers, but because I always liked Prince Buster, The English Beat and UB40 and they deserve some recognition.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?featur...&v=rvraAY_lL0A

I'd be careful about giving it a Dakota name or you might find we're renaming again in a few years.

After all, the Cheyenne lived here at the time of the first European contact but they were chased out by the Sioux. Of course, the Sioux didn't have much choice, as they were fleeing the Ojibway who had defeated them in battle.

We tend to only look at history from the time of the Europeans but there was plenty of warfare and land grabbing going on before we got here.