How Would You Characterize The Twin Cities? (Minneapolis, St. Paul: sales, neighborhood)

[srsmn]

Originally Posted by treemoni

The TC is not racially diverse (I don't care how many refugees you take if they aren't truly welcomed, which they're not), and it does not share the racial history that Pittsburgh, Cleveland, Chicago, etc does. Apples to oranges.

How do you know they are not welcomed? Are you a refugee? Are you a spokesperson for the entire refugee community?

I think we should both take pause before we make statements like that.

Second, I don't know what you mean by "racial history." Pittsburgh's "racial history" amounts to a brief Renaissance on the Hill District, and a whole heck of a lot of white racism outside of that brief period. As a metro, it is actually more non-Hispanic white than the Twin Cities, by the way. It's been named the least diverse large city in the country a few years running.

Cleveland has an ugly racial past, and very, very little community outside of non-Hispanic whites, and African-Americans. So, yeah....not a whole lot of diversity there.

Chicago is legitimately much more diverse, and a greater contributor to the history of race relations in the United States. Chicago is in a different stratosphere on a lot of stuff on every other big city in the Midwest, so that is to be expected.

And....what exactly is your "etcetera"?

You're right: apples to oranges. Minneapolis is more diverse than any of those cities, save Chicago.

I do not consider Pittsburgh a liberal city. We clearly have two vastly different ideas about the definition of "liberal", so I'll leave it at that.You will not convince me that the TC is anything other than an extremely provincial place, and I will not convince you that it isn't one of the greatest cities in America. I think we're equal.

I never said it was. I said that parts of it were, to illustrate a point to you about how parts of most-- if not all-- large metro areas can be termed liberal, and others can be quite conservative. But apparently that went way over your head. My apologies.

I also brought it up because it is much, much closer to the center of American politics and values than Minneapolis is.

Your point was-- essentially-- that if we think Minneapolis is liberal, then we need to get out more. I was simply expressing that I've been on the other side of that fence. Where have you lived besides Chicago and Minnesota, btw?

I didn't say Minneapolis was one of the greatest cities in America. Well....depends. Top 20, yeah. Top 5? No way.

Anyway, if people (more than just me, but multiple people) can't convince you to change your viewpoint on a subject that you clearly know very little about, then that says more about you than the rest of us. It's no skin off of my back.

It would be good in the future if you did not broach such subjects if you know ahead of time that you won't have a reasonable conversation about them. But yeah, anyway....nice cop-out. I'll walk away and save you face, since that's what you're clearly after, and I'm feeling generous.

[treemoni]

How do I know they aren't welcomed? LOL. Experience. Do you have fact-based evidence that suggests otherwise? If so, please share.

The fact that you have no idea what you're talking about regarding Pittsburgh's racial history tells me enough, and I don't need to engage any further. I can't believe you're serious. Then again...you live in the MN bubble.

[srsmn]

Originally Posted by treemoni

How do I know they aren't welcomed? LOL. Experience. Do you have fact-based evidence that suggests otherwise? If so, please share.

The fact that you have no idea what you're talking about regarding Pittsburgh's racial history tells me enough, and I don't need to engage any further. I can't believe you're serious. Then again...you live in the MN bubble.

Still on it, then?

1. Are you a refugee? What experience?

2. I've forgotten more about Pittsburgh-- including its racial history, including its entire history-- then you've ever learned. Go ahead. Try me out.

[treemoni]

Don't worry about my experience. You still haven't said how refugees are accepted. Probably because they're not. Also, a bunch of Minnesotans disputing my views about Minnesota says nothing about me, because I'm not the only one you do it to. Anyone who comes on this forum with an iota of dissent is mobbed. Mobbing is something Minnesotans seem to do very well.

[srsmn]

Originally Posted by treemoni

Don't worry about my experience. You still haven't said how refugees are accepted.

Nope. You brought it up. You tell me.

Only thing I've said is that we should both take pause before talking about somebody else's experience. Tell me where I'm wrong.

Probably because they're not. Also, a bunch of Minnesotans disputing my views about Minnesota says nothing about me, because I'm not the only one you do it to. Anyone who comes on this forum with an iota of dissent is mobbed. Mobbing is something Minnesotans seem to do very well.

That's not really true. Plenty of posters who love the Twin Cities make appropriate concessions and admit imperfections about the place and even admit defeat when it's clear that they're wrong. Go back and read this thread. I've made some concessions.

Difference is with you, you spew how you despise this place every chance you get, but never tell us why (in practical, not vague, terms). Why wouldn't we challenge you on that?

Still don't want to talk about Teenie Harris? August Wilson (whose Pittsburgh Cycle debuted in St. Paul, MN, by the way)? The Mellon Arena and Bedford Dwellings? The Homestead Grays? East Liberty? The Griffeys (from Monassen)?

Where have you lived besides Chicago and Minnesota? Are you a refugee? Where are your comments coming from? It's not an attack, I legitimately want to understand....

[treemoni]

A simple Google search will support my claim, with fact-based sources. Google is free.

I am going to assume you're white. Please correct me if I'm wrong. If I am not wrong, your view of Pittsburgh is not surprising to me. It is generally difficult for a white person to understand what life is like for a person of color in America. "White privilege" is not something someone made up to make white people feel bad. It is real, and a great barrier to empathy.

I'm not sure how you gather I "despise" the Twin Cities. On the whole, I find the natives small-minded and prejudice, which negates most of its positives...FOR ME. It's 2015. The world is changing. Get with it.

[montymontage]

Pittsburgh, as it happens, is my fave city; I've spent some time there are really want to move there from Minneapolis. Minneapolis is clearly more cosmo; hands down! it's not even a question that can be debated and I'm some what hostilely ambivalent to TC, look at my posts, but this is actually very dumb comparing to small Midwestern cities in terms of what neither actually has!


Pittsburgh is beautiful; (Minneapolis is not) Minneapolis is a bit more cosmo--but that's like comparing bruised apples to slightly less bruised apples. Pittsburgh does have more of the old school labor liberalism; is, in my view, a little more live and let live...Neither cites are especially liberal....
and, BTW, 'white privilege', while real, is actually a tool for "liberals whites" to simply sigh and push the issue aside while enjoying the 'privileges' of their social networks, as they gnash their teeth and count their portfolios. Read John McWorhter as one proof. It's not a crazy idea, at all.

[srsmn]

Originally Posted by treemoni

A simple Google search will support my claim, with fact-based sources. Google is free.

Ok. So go ahead and do it. You made the claim, not me. You support it, not me. Research 101.

I am going to assume you're white. Please correct me if I'm wrong. If I am not wrong, your view of Pittsburgh is not surprising to me. It is generally difficult for a white person to understand what life is like for a person of color in America.

I'm white, and I lived as a white person in predominantly African-American neighborhoods in Pittsburgh for my entire time there.

I am not sure how we got on the subject of white privilege, but since we are on it, I will bite: what is my view of Pittsburgh that is "not surprising" to you? That it had a thriving, Middle-class African American neighborhood in the Hill District for a brief period? Or, that the white racism in Pittsburgh has been severe, and that the city is incredibly segregated now as a result? I'm not sure how either claim is controversial or predicated on my being white.

"White privilege" is not something someone made up to make white people feel bad. It is real, and a great barrier to empathy.

Um....I agree?

You are infusing this debate where it does not belong, trying to drag me through the mud, and putting words into my mouth that were never said by me or even insinuated.

Listen, racism and white privilege are very much real. You are not talking to somebody who denies that.

Honestly....where did we get on this topic? What did I say?

And why won't you answer my questions?

I'm not sure how you gather I "despise" the Twin Cities. On the whole, I find the natives small-minded and prejudice, which negates most of its positives...FOR ME. It's 2015. The world is changing. Get with it.

Oh, please.

"Better to remain silent and let people think you a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt."
--Abraham Lincoln

[darkone]

Back to the original question posed, I would characterize Minneapolis area as clean, green (outside of winter), unmistakably Midwestern yet still progressive, and neither too large nor too small. (It WILL feel small and somewhat lacking to someone from the NYC, LA, Chicago areas as well as many other metro areas in the US and world, however by American standards, it is indeed a large mid-sized metro area.) I have visited the area a few times and it is nice enough, with a subdued feel compared to larger cities. However I always leave with the nagging feeling that something is missing - it has a nice collection of suburbs and malls, a large airport, a downtown with some skyscrapers, Fortune 500 HQs, lakes etc but no "pull", "magnetism" or charm that many other cities have which create a true sense of place and keep one wanting to come back for more ...

[srsmn]

Originally Posted by darkone

Back to the original question posed, I would characterize Minneapolis area as clean, green (outside of winter), unmistakably Midwestern yet still progressive, and neither too large nor too small. (It WILL feel small and somewhat lacking to someone from the NYC, LA, Chicago areas as well as many other metro areas in the US and world, however by American standards, it is indeed a large mid-sized metro area.) I have visited the area a few times and it is nice enough, with a subdued feel compared to larger cities. However I always leave with the nagging feeling that something is missing - it has a nice collection of suburbs and malls, a large airport, a downtown with some skyscrapers, Fortune 500 HQs, lakes etc but no "pull", "magnetism" or charm that many other cities have which create a true sense of place and keep one wanting to come back for more ...

I definitely feel like we do a lot of things well, but we don't really do anything better than everybody else. Like the way that Memphis does the Blues, or Nashville does Country? Those are cities that maybe get as many tourism dollars as we do, despite being comparatively small in scale, because they are instantly identifiable with one thing that makes them distinct/unique. It's sort of Lake Wobegonish: "The children are all above average."

I also don't think that we market ourselves very well, and I'm not convinced that we ever could, given our weather and location.

Also, for a business traveler that only sees the airport and downtown Minneapolis, it would seem to lack a bit of grit and charm as compared with other places (Baltimore smokes that. Philadelphia, too. Pittsburgh does it very well). We may seem a bit too clean-cut, or "Disneyfied" maybe, or a bit inauthentic. I think parts of the cities show off how they are well established and historic, and really, really real places. But downtown, not so much. Too clean and new and polished....