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Hey everyone, I just had some questions I was hoping that you could possibly help me get answered. Thank you in advance!
What are some major difference between St. Paul and Minneapolis.-- Based off the research I have done, I am thinking that St. Paul is more of a quiet place, somewhere maybe to raise a family/homely (not boring, just more relaxed) while Minneapolis is more booming and thriving all the time 24/7. Is this correct?
Which one of the twin cities has more job opportunities for people with Business/International Business and Marketing degrees?
My degree is Business Admin and my boyfriends is Marketing with International Business.
If you have an associates degree in Business Admin would it be difficult to find a job, even if it is just clerical or is it necessary to have a bachelor (I plan to transfer and finish my 4 year while living there...just hoping to work in/near my field in the mean time)
What is public transport there like? Is it operated around the clock or only during certain hours?
What is diversity like in the Twin Cities?
Rent? How affordable is it? What are some good neighborhoods in both St. Paul and Minneapolis?
If you lived out of state and applied for jobs, how easily did you find a position? What was your level of education? Did you find a position in your field?
We love sports in our home, hockey, football, baseball, basketball, we love it all...how hard is it to get tickets to games?
Education:
What is education like in public schools? I have read the graduation rate is high, people with kids, are you happy with the education they receive(d)?
Colleges in the area? Best community colleges and Four year colleges? Do all community colleges in the state actually transfer to 4 year colleges in MN? (where I currently live they say they do but they don't...)
Any advice for moving to one of the twin cities? Things you wish you had known before if you moved there from another state or part of the world?
First of all: Welcome! I really enjoy living here, and I hope you will too!
Second: I would encourage you not to think about it as Minneapolis OR Saint Paul. There are not really any "major differences" between the cities. It is true that downtown Minneapolis has more nightlife than downtown Saint Paul, but the Lowertown area of Saint Paul is proving that this "twin" can be filled with vitality, too. There are quiet areas in each city and loud areas in each city. I would focus on what sort of neighborhood appeals to you and go from there rather than trying to decide whether you want Minneapolis as a whole or Saint Paul as a whole.
The same goes for job opportunities. It's not really worth worrying about which city has more job opportunities. This is one contiguous metro area. I suppose technically Minneapolis would have more jobs since it is larger, but it is really a meaningless distinction. Most of the people I know live in the city and work in the suburbs, anyway.
Honestly it might be a bit more difficult to find work with an associates degree. Education levels are high here, and it is very common for even basic jobs to require a 4-year degree. We do have a booming economy now, though, so that may offset some of your difficulties. Don't be afraid to apply to jobs with a degree requirement anyway, and be ready to showcase your experience and ambition.
I can't speak much to public transit, since I am not a user myself, but from what I have heard it is solidly middle-of-the-road. It's obviously not as impressive as the mass transit systems in, say New York of Chicago. But I know plenty of people who rely on the buses and light rail who manage to get where they are going. The experience will also depend a great deal on where you live and where you are going to--suburbs may have just a couple of commuter buses a day, whereas if you live on the LRT line you will have a train stopping every few minutes.
Diversity is...complicated. It's more than some places and less than others. The most prominent multicultural elements here are Hmong, Latin-American, and East-African.
Just like anywhere else, rent will vary considerably based on what you are looking for. You can easily pay $2,500++ for a 1 BR apartment in one of the shiny new buildings in downtown Minneapolis. But if you are willing to live in a dumpy studio in a not-so-great neighborhood you can get by with closer to $650. I would expect to budget somewhere around $1,000 if you want something nice and well-located but not luxury. As far as what neighborhoods are "good," that will depend on what you want. Does "good" to you mean mostly owner-occupied single family homes? High rises? Does it mean somewhere super vibrant with 24/7 activity? Or a quiet, secluded nook? Hipsters or ex-frat-boys or young families or empty nesters? If you give an idea of what appeals most to you, I'm sure we can offer some neighborhood recommendations.
I haven't applied for jobs from out of state, but I have heard that it can be a challenge anywhere. If I were you, I would do my best to get a job ahead of time but then consider moving here with nothing lined up. It is incredibly easy to get a subsistence job: waiting tables, retail, and the like. If you go to the Mall of America, half those stores are so desperate for workers that they are doing on-the-spot interviews and starting people almost immediately. Then once you have some money coming in you could seek work in your field.
I am NOT a sports person in the least, but I don't get the sense that it is difficult to get tickets. You can't just go buy front-row tickets an hour before a big game, but I don't get the sense that those things actually sell out to the point where people want to go and can't.
Schools are universally pretty high quality. Ratings tend to have more to do with how wealthy and advantaged the students are than whether the school provides a quality education. I didn't grow up here and I don't have kids, but I have done a fair amount of reading on the subject and several of my friends work with the education system.
Again, "best" is subjective. The most rigorous academic institution in the metro area is Macalester College, but that's not really somewhere you can transfer into after community college. The U of M is reasonably well regarded but utterly massive. Not *all* community college credits will transfer to *all* 4-year colleges, but advisers will be able to work with you on a transfer strategy if you wind up going that route.
I can't think of any specific advice I haven't touched on above. Again: welcome to the area!
It's easy to get tix to almost all the Twins and Timberwolves games; I follow attendance of most sports closely.
The Wild had a long sellout streak snapped about three years ago . Now it seems they're drawing solidly again.
Not sure about the Vikings, but it's the NFL, so I assume most or all ganes are sellouts, but a local on this board can comment how hard it is to get tix.
The WNBA Lynx just won another title. Not sure how well they've drawn.
First of all: Welcome! I really enjoy living here, and I hope you will too!
Second: I would encourage you not to think about it as Minneapolis OR Saint Paul. There are not really any "major differences" between the cities. It is true that downtown Minneapolis has more nightlife than downtown Saint Paul, but the Lowertown area of Saint Paul is proving that this "twin" can be filled with vitality, too. There are quiet areas in each city and loud areas in each city. I would focus on what sort of neighborhood appeals to you and go from there rather than trying to decide whether you want Minneapolis as a whole or Saint Paul as a whole.
The same goes for job opportunities. It's not really worth worrying about which city has more job opportunities. This is one contiguous metro area. I suppose technically Minneapolis would have more jobs since it is larger, but it is really a meaningless distinction. Most of the people I know live in the city and work in the suburbs, anyway.
Honestly it might be a bit more difficult to find work with an associates degree. Education levels are high here, and it is very common for even basic jobs to require a 4-year degree. We do have a booming economy now, though, so that may offset some of your difficulties. Don't be afraid to apply to jobs with a degree requirement anyway, and be ready to showcase your experience and ambition.
I can't speak much to public transit, since I am not a user myself, but from what I have heard it is solidly middle-of-the-road. It's obviously not as impressive as the mass transit systems in, say New York of Chicago. But I know plenty of people who rely on the buses and light rail who manage to get where they are going. The experience will also depend a great deal on where you live and where you are going to--suburbs may have just a couple of commuter buses a day, whereas if you live on the LRT line you will have a train stopping every few minutes.
Diversity is...complicated. It's more than some places and less than others. The most prominent multicultural elements here are Hmong, Latin-American, and East-African.
Just like anywhere else, rent will vary considerably based on what you are looking for. You can easily pay $2,500++ for a 1 BR apartment in one of the shiny new buildings in downtown Minneapolis. But if you are willing to live in a dumpy studio in a not-so-great neighborhood you can get by with closer to $650. I would expect to budget somewhere around $1,000 if you want something nice and well-located but not luxury. As far as what neighborhoods are "good," that will depend on what you want. Does "good" to you mean mostly owner-occupied single family homes? High rises? Does it mean somewhere super vibrant with 24/7 activity? Or a quiet, secluded nook? Hipsters or ex-frat-boys or young families or empty nesters? If you give an idea of what appeals most to you, I'm sure we can offer some neighborhood recommendations.
I haven't applied for jobs from out of state, but I have heard that it can be a challenge anywhere. If I were you, I would do my best to get a job ahead of time but then consider moving here with nothing lined up. It is incredibly easy to get a subsistence job: waiting tables, retail, and the like. If you go to the Mall of America, half those stores are so desperate for workers that they are doing on-the-spot interviews and starting people almost immediately. Then once you have some money coming in you could seek work in your field.
I am NOT a sports person in the least, but I don't get the sense that it is difficult to get tickets. You can't just go buy front-row tickets an hour before a big game, but I don't get the sense that those things actually sell out to the point where people want to go and can't.
Schools are universally pretty high quality. Ratings tend to have more to do with how wealthy and advantaged the students are than whether the school provides a quality education. I didn't grow up here and I don't have kids, but I have done a fair amount of reading on the subject and several of my friends work with the education system.
Again, "best" is subjective. The most rigorous academic institution in the metro area is Macalester College, but that's not really somewhere you can transfer into after community college. The U of M is reasonably well regarded but utterly massive. Not *all* community college credits will transfer to *all* 4-year colleges, but advisers will be able to work with you on a transfer strategy if you wind up going that route.
I can't think of any specific advice I haven't touched on above. Again: welcome to the area!
Thank you so much for your detailed answer!
I don't want to move without a job so I am definitely looking before moving, I do have retail experience so if I had to work in the mall and then look for something in my field I could live with it. Adjusting is hard anywhere, it is just how determined you are in the end.
My boyfriend and I are very family oriented so we eventually we will want a family oriented neighborhood. We don't mind living in a suburban area but we would like to be close enough to ride into the city.
I wouldn't mind living in a basic or even crappy studio apartment as long as it was safe (and by that I don't mean extremely low crime rate or anything but just somewhere with average safety--my boyfriend won't be moving with me right away and he worries more about me than I do myself. However, I know how to use common sense to keep me safe so I don't need anything where you need to buzz people in or fancy. Just somewhere that I can lock the door and be good.)
I appreciate your help so much and I look forward to visiting the area soon to find out more info!!
It's easy to get tix to almost all the Twins and Timberwolves games; I follow attendance of most sports closely.
The Wild had a long sellout streak snapped about three years ago . Now it seems they're drawing solidly again.
Not sure about the Vikings, but it's the NFL, so I assume most or all ganes are sellouts, but a local on this board can comment how hard it is to get tix.
The WNBA Lynx just won another title. Not sure how well they've drawn.
Thank you!! We are avid sports fans and we will definitely want to be involved. I appreciate your response!
I agree that Minneapolis and St. Paul should be looked upon as a complimentary team, where the two together are worth more than the two as individuals, kind of like Lennon/McCartney vs Lennon and McCartney separately. My brother lives in St. Paul , but frequently goes over to Minneapolis to the lakes, downtown or neighborhoods. But I also know folks who live in each city who are VERY provincial and only want to hang out in their town. So, just be aware that both outlooks exist. Hopefully, you'll take advantage of both cities as it is definitely a richer way to live!
Certain areas of St. Paul tend to have a more historic atmosphere, with areas like Selby/Western, Ramsey Hill, & Irvine Park akin to places like Cincinnati, Pittsburgh or St. Louis. Minneapolis grew a few decades later (say 1880s vs 1860s) and has a slightly different feel. But the most distinctive characteristic of Minneapolis ( to me anyway) is the excellent park system, which includes beautiful city lakes, parkways along the river and Minnehaha Creek. It's an incredible amenity and great for going for walks, roller-blades or bike rides. I do think it's a factor in making The Twin Cities one of the fittest metro areas.
Public transit is generally good, but nothing like much bigger cities. Still, the bus system is well used. Service to suburbs varies. Some suburbs have opted out of metro transit, with several grouping together to create their own more limited commuter bus system. There's also Two light rail lines, which provide high level of service to certain corridors.
The quality of public education is high. Even the central cities have good schools (though there are many under achieving inner city schools too). My wife and lived in Linden Hills for 20 years and sent our kids to Lake Harriet Community School and our older son graduated from Southwest (our younger son is now a senior here in the Columbus area). We had a generally good experience overall with Mpls schools, mostly because the kids were attentive and parents are quite involved and interested in school. We had a wide range of teachers, some were very good, some were at best mediocre. I think several suburbs likely likely have better academics, but our kids had a great experience living in the city. I now live in Upper Arlington, Ohio, which is like Edina. Our younger son gets a better academic education here than he would in Minneapolis, but the culture is very different. Everyone drives to school, whereas in Minneapolis, most kids rode bikes, walked and rode city buses.
I agree that Minneapolis and St. Paul should be looked upon as a complimentary team, where the two together are worth more than the two as individuals, kind of like Lennon/McCartney vs Lennon and McCartney separately. My brother lives in St. Paul , but frequently goes over to Minneapolis to the lakes, downtown or neighborhoods. But I also know folks who live in each city who are VERY provincial and only want to hang out in their town. So, just be aware that both outlooks exist. Hopefully, you'll take advantage of both cities as it is definitely a richer way to live!
Certain areas of St. Paul tend to have a more historic atmosphere, with areas like Selby/Western, Ramsey Hill, & Irvine Park akin to places like Cincinnati, Pittsburgh or St. Louis. Minneapolis grew a few decades later (say 1880s vs 1860s) and has a slightly different feel. But the most distinctive characteristic of Minneapolis ( to me anyway) is the excellent park system, which includes beautiful city lakes, parkways along the river and Minnehaha Creek. It's an incredible amenity and great for going for walks, roller-blades or bike rides. I do think it's a factor in making The Twin Cities one of the fittest metro areas.
Public transit is generally good, but nothing like much bigger cities. Still, the bus system is well used. Service to suburbs varies. Some suburbs have opted out of metro transit, with several grouping together to create their own more limited commuter bus system. There's also Two light rail lines, which provide high level of service to certain corridors.
The quality of public education is high. Even the central cities have good schools (though there are many under achieving inner city schools too). My wife and lived in Linden Hills for 20 years and sent our kids to Lake Harriet Community School and our older son graduated from Southwest (our younger son is now a senior here in the Columbus area). We had a generally good experience overall with Mpls schools, mostly because the kids were attentive and parents are quite involved and interested in school. We had a wide range of teachers, some were very good, some were at best mediocre. I think several suburbs likely likely have better academics, but our kids had a great experience living in the city. I now live in Upper Arlington, Ohio, which is like Edina. Our younger son gets a better academic education here than he would in Minneapolis, but the culture is very different. Everyone drives to school, whereas in Minneapolis, most kids rode bikes, walked and rode city buses.
Thank you for your reply!
I definitely would travel between SP and MNPL, we want both! =) I was just trying to find out more about each from personal experiences to decide where to look for an apartment or home =)
I am familiar with Arlington, Ohio! I am from Mobile, Alabama (ughhh) and the school system is terrible so just about anything is going to be a step up haha! I think that is really neat that most kids ride bikes, walk or take the city bus!
Hey everyone, I just had some questions I was hoping that you could possibly help me get answered. Thank you in advance!
What are some major difference between St. Paul and Minneapolis.-- Based off the research I have done, I am thinking that St. Paul is more of a quiet place, somewhere maybe to raise a family/homely (not boring, just more relaxed) while Minneapolis is more booming and thriving all the time 24/7. Is this correct?
St. Paul is the "Last Great City of the East," and Minneapolis is the "First Great City of the West."
I would not call Minneapolis a 24/7 city, but most of the region's nightlife is there. Downtown (Warehouse District and North Loop), Uptown, Stadium Village and Dinkytown are considered the premiere nightlife districts of the Twin Cities, all in Minneapolis. There are other nice neighborhoods for bars, as well. Cedar-Riverside and the area around Central Avenue in Nordeast. In St. Paul, you find high concentrations of bars around West 7th and in Lowertown....a few on Selby around Cathedral Hill and along Grand Avenue between the campuses of Macalaster and St. Thomas.
Generally, St. Paul has more neighborhood bars and Minneapolis has more long strips of bars. This is due to zoning.
In St. Paul, you find pretty relaxed bars, cocktail lounges, sports bars, and the occasional microbrewery. The "wild and crazy" bars are almost exclusively in Minneapolis.
Minneapolis's adult population is younger than St. Paul's, probably because of this difference. Minneapolis has more renters, more large apartment buildings, and more new construction apartment buildings catering specifically to young professionals. St. Paul has more single-family homes, beautifully built around the turn of the 20th century and often lovingly maintained. St. Paul Public Schools actually enrolls more students than does Minneapolis Public Schools, despite serving a smaller city, and it has been that way for a few years. So I would say that St. Paul skews more towards families.
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Which one of the twin cities has more job opportunities for people with Business/International Business and Marketing degrees?
My degree is Business Admin and my boyfriends is Marketing with International Business.
I will echo what others have said in that any job opportunities in either city will be available to you regardless of what city you end up living in. Minneapolis and St. Paul share a large continuous border, and in many ways, function as one larger city together. You can cross over the city line of Minneapolis into St. Paul and-- if you didn't know any better-- never even know that you had done so.
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If you have an associates degree in Business Admin would it be difficult to find a job, even if it is just clerical or is it necessary to have a bachelor (I plan to transfer and finish my 4 year while living there...just hoping to work in/near my field in the mean time)
I think that there is a strong economy for both you and the boyfriend in the Twin Cities. There is a large corporate presence and lots of smaller, supportive firms that are in need of your skill-set.
However, the human capitol here is quite good. There is no shortage of workers with Bachelor's Degrees or higher, in pretty much anything. I do not know if this is going to end up affecting you with your Associates, but it could.
We also have a strong infrastructure of Nonprofits in the Twin Cities, and those agencies need your skills. A bit of a different beast than doing the same job for a corporation, and maybe a bit less lucrative, but perhaps easier, overall, to crack. I have worked in Nonprofits in the Twin Cities as well as in Pittsburgh. In Pittsburgh, they rave about their Nonprofit scene, and it is strong, but does not compare favorably to here. Our Nonprofit industry here is perhaps the best organized, most subsidized, and most extensive of any comparable market in the country. Also, colleges, universities, and public high schools need people with your skills. So, if you think creatively I have no doubt you will find a job here.
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What is public transport there like? Is it operated around the clock or only during certain hours?
We're working on it, but I wouldn't call it good. Light-rail stays open more or less all night; some bus routes probably do, as well. With increased frequency during rush hour.
It is not a city where you can rely on public transit in the same way that you can in Chicago or DC, however.
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What is diversity like in the Twin Cities?
For a long time, the Twin Cities were about 90% non-Hispanic White. This continued into the 1980's and 1990's when an array of factors caused migrants and refugees to come here.
It is still white-bread as compared with some other major cities, but the region gets more diverse every day and is surprisingly integrated, geographically.
Both Minneapolis and St. Paul are approaching 20% foreign-born populations. Our primary immigrant groups are Somalis, Ethiopians, Eritreans, Liberians, Nigerians, Mexicans, Hmong, Vietnamese, and other Southeast Asians. With a growing Indian and subcontinental Asian population.
We are not a "Black Mecca" by any means, and have a pretty small African-American population as compared with peer cities. Since Minneapolis was so far north, it did not act as a magnet for black families in the Great Migration the way that St. Louis or Kansas City or Chicago did; it is not uncommon for African-American families here to have their roots in Chicago, and many of those families moved from Chicago to here starting in the 1980's.
We also have one of the largest LGBTQ populations in the country, and one of its largest Pride Parades.
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Rent? How affordable is it? What are some good neighborhoods in both St. Paul and Minneapolis?
If you are below $2 per square foot per month in the Twin Cities, than you are very much in the sweet-spot. There are no rentals available still (or, very few, at least) where that number is down to $1 per square foot per month, which is still the standard in some cheaper rental markets.
Mostly, I think it is reasonable and that incomes keep up with rent and other cost of living factors. The rent is obviously higher in more desirable neighborhoods, such as near Uptown or in Southwest Minneapolis. Rent is lower in less desirable neighborhoods, too. Just like anywhere. But I will say that you can live on a safe street in a pretty nice, residential area for not a lot of money (less than $1,000 per month is reasonable in most parts of the Twin Cities still).
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If you lived out of state and applied for jobs, how easily did you find a position? What was your level of education? Did you find a position in your field?
I tried this while I was planning a move back from Pittsburgh. I received some phone interviews, but the process did not yield any offers until I actually moved back and began interviewing face-to-face.
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We love sports in our home, hockey, football, baseball, basketball, we love it all...how hard is it to get tickets to games?
The Twin Cities is a passionate baseball market, and when the Twins are winning, those games are probably the hottest sports ticket in town. Even in the dilapidated metrodome, when the team was good, the fans supported it fervently.
The Wild pretty much always sell out. So that's a tough ticket regardless of what else is going on in the sports landscape around town. I've never been to a game (I'm not into hockey enough to want to pay to go see it), but everybody says that it is an electric game-time atmosphere. This is easily one of the best hockey markets in the US, with the high-school championship game at Xcel Energy Center routinely selling out.
The Wolves are an easy ticket, and very cheap, and should be exciting for the next few years with the young talent they have rising right now.
The WNBA Lynx set a franchise attendance record (nearly 19,000) on Wednesday night when they clinched their third league championship.
Vikings fans are passionate, although the knock on them is that they are not particularly knowledgeable. We get disillusioned with the Vikings pretty easily, generally, because it's easy to. They are cursed. But they still draw reliably well. Right now, they probably sell out but that is partly because they are playing at the U of M's campus, in the smallest stadium in the NFL. Once the new stadium is completed, I expect that they will sell out, as well.
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Education:
What is education like in public schools? I have read the graduation rate is high, people with kids, are you happy with the education they receive(d)?
Colleges in the area? Best community colleges and Four year colleges? Do all community colleges in the state actually transfer to 4 year colleges in MN? (where I currently live they say they do but they don't...)
Well, I think that Minneapolis Public is likely going the wrong direction, not the right one. But this is coming off of years of reopening elementary schools because of a surge in the population of young families within the city.
Generally, the school districts here are really, very good. This is mostly because they receive more state money than districts do in most states, and so they have to rely on municipal tax dollars a lot less. That tends to even the playing field a bit between the districts that serve wealthy areas, and those that serve areas that are financially dis-invested.
Locals sometimes get a snooty attitude about a few of the suburban districts (Maplewood-North St. Paul, Osseo, and Robbinsdale, notably), but the reality is that those districts are average-to-good by the metrics of pretty much anybody else in the country. The standout districts right now, in my opinion, are Wayzata and Woodbury. St. Louis Park, Edina, Hopkins, and Roseville are always reliably good. Moundsview and Irondale deliver really good quality and never seem to get enough press for it...
Do you mean credit transfers? I have known people that have transitioned from MCTC to the U of M with relative ease, so I am assuming that it is not some "Gotcha" where you find out all too late that your coursework at the community colleges was useless. For general ed courses, I would assume that the credit transfers to state institutions and may vary in the private colleges and universities. For degree-track courses, I would assume that it varies from degree to degree, depending on what agency the community college maintains its accreditation with.
Generally, we have good colleges and universities in the Twin Cities and a lot of students. There is Augsburg, St. Thomas, Hamline, Concordia, St. Catherines, Bethel, Crown College, Northcentral Bible College, and Macalestar (among others) all within the Twin Cities area. There is Carleton, St. Olaf, and Gustavus Adolphus college not far from the Twin Cities. Of those, Carleton and Macalester are the only two that I would call "elite." But some of those colleges, while not elite, are very, very good and carry strong reputations beyond Minnesota's borders.
The UofM is making it its mission to become one of the premiere public universities in the country. This has involved the infusion of a significant amount of cash into new facilities and the expansion of programs. We will see how that plays out...
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Any advice for moving to one of the twin cities? Things you wish you had known before if you moved there from another state or part of the world?
srsmn is right on with all his comments. A couple of things to add. Public schools in Minneapolis are not as bad as might appear. Check the "scorecards" carefully and you'll find some interesting data. When you remove kids in poverty (reduced or free lunch). And ESL kids (don't speak English as their first language) you will find that the test scores for the remaining kids are generally on par with their suburban counterparts. My kids started in MPS and they are both 4.0 students taking AP courses so it did alright by me.
Secondly, you can usually pick up tickets to any team in town although you may have to pay more than face value for them. When the new vikes stadium opens next year, I imagine that will be a nearly impossible tickets to get, at least for the first few years.
Yes, bring a good coat....and hat....and gloves. And buy the snow shovel with the ergonomic handle and make sure there is a curve in the blade. Don't get the flat ones because, unfortunately, you are going to have to push AND lift each time!
As a recruiter, I can tell you that, unless you have specialty skills or are at an executive level, it's very challenging to get a job before you physically reside in a city (there are some ways around that--- i.e. use a local address and be willing to fly/drive yourself in for an interview, etc), but if you have the ability to do as others have suggested-- which is to move here and then get a job to 'tide you over' (ie: waitressing, retail, etc), that will likely be your best bet. Then, you should be able to get a job with considerably more ease.
Best of luck!
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