01-24-2016, 05:20 PM
Location: Minneapolis, MN
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
Glenfield
Yes, my point was simply these benefits do not come without a cost and that cost is borne largely by the poor. We should at least acknowledge that.
Yes, I'm guessing a few of the current residents will get jobs at the Starbucks, co-ops and microbreweries that will open in the neighborhood when gentrification hits. The remaining residents that don't want to stay will probably end up moving to places like Brooklyn Center, Brooklyn Park, Crystal, New Hope, Columbia Heights, Fridley and Coon Rapids.
01-24-2016, 06:29 PM
Location: MSP
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Reputation: 570
The article is mostly focused on empty lots, which take longer to sell no matter where you are in the metro. Last year the average lot took a median of 108 days on market, vs. less than 40 for a single-family home.
Part of the problem is that even if the lot is cheap, the cost to build a house will exceed what it will be worth almost immediately after you take possession (just like when you drive a new car off a lot). Most people who build single houses on lots are speculators (who can sell homes faster and for a better margin in the growing suburbs) or owner occupants who build for themselves. But if you want to live in north or northeast Minneapolis, why would you want something new when there are great older homes to choose from and that will cost less than building new?
IMHO, the city's strategy of demolishing vacant homes rather than making them available to rehabbers is counter-intuitive if you want to keep an area vibrant or allow it to come back from the brink. The number of people who are ready willing and able to buy and rehab homes greatly outnumbers the number of people who will build spec homes. If you want to see the long-term impact of demolishing homes, look at Detroit, where there are blocks and blocks of empty lots that will likely never be redeveloped. The lower population in those areas (because there's no place for them to live) means businesses move to areas of greater population density, schools get consolidated and soon enough there's nothing in those neighborhoods keeping people there. And the downward spiral continues.
FYI, on the north side of Minneapolis, every neighborhood except the following saw an INCREASE in the median sales price in 2015: Holland, Northeast Park, St. Anthony West and East, Nicollet Island and Marcy Holmes. 22 others north of downtown saw increases last year. So there's hope.
01-26-2016, 09:40 AM
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And yet in neighborhoods like MacGroveland in St. Paul (and other areas as well) they tear down perfectly good homes to build these spec homes. It is hard to see how tearing down a $200,000 house and building a new house can actually be profitable.
01-26-2016, 10:35 AM
Location: Twin Cities
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
cathedralhill1
And yet in neighborhoods like MacGroveland in St. Paul (and other areas as well) they tear down perfectly good homes to build these spec homes. It is hard to see how tearing down a $200,000 house and building a new house can actually be profitable.
I know what you're saying yet it must be profitable or the developers wouldn't be doing it. It suggests that it costs less to build a house than perhaps you and I think. Maybe one of the real estate agents here can put some numbers on this for us.
01-26-2016, 11:30 AM
Location: MSP
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Reputation: 570
Quote:
Originally Posted by
cathedralhill1
And yet in neighborhoods like MacGroveland in St. Paul (and other areas as well) they tear down perfectly good homes to build these spec homes. It is hard to see how tearing down a $200,000 house and building a new house can actually be profitable.
You're talking about far more desirable neighborhoods with higher median sales prices and higher $/sqft. It's the same reason developers are doing teardowns in Edina and not in Crystal (OK, they're doing some in Crystal, but not nearly as many). And it's only profitable when you acquire the land cheaply enough.
The cost to build a house is more or less the same anywhere, but the demand is far greater in certain neighborhoods versus others. In most urban neighborhoods it makes far more sense to renovate an existing home than tear down and start over (plus, who would want to buy a Blaine-style Lennar home with builder-grade finishes on Grand or Highland?).
Here's a specific example: 2179 Palace Ave in Mac-Groveland. 4 bed/3 bath, 2,028 square feet. Listed for $499,900 and is new construction over a teardown (the original property/land was acquired for $225,000, by the way, so your example of $200k was spot on). Very nicely done, granite, stainless, the works. Compare that to 8282 Arrowwood Lane N in Maple Grove — which is actually 400 square feet bigger but with comparable finishes — and listed at $375,000.
Developers could do the same thing theoretically in other neighborhoods, but there's not as much of a market for $300k+ homes in a lot of north Minneapolis and northeast.
01-26-2016, 12:24 PM
264 posts, read
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Reputation: 187
Quote:
Originally Posted by
cathedralhill1
And yet in neighborhoods like MacGroveland in St. Paul (and other areas as well) they tear down perfectly good homes to build these spec homes. It is hard to see how tearing down a $200,000 house and building a new house can actually be profitable.
Likely, it is not a $200,000 house; it is a $100,000 (or less) house on a $100,000 (or more) city lot. Build a house for $300,000 builder cost, sell for $500,000+ -> PROFIT! (not that there is anything wrong with that.)
01-26-2016, 12:49 PM
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No, some really are $200,000+. And most of the new construction costs more than $499,900. Use a real estate mapper that can distinguish new construction and you can readily see how many of these there are accumulating in the SW quadrant of St. Paul and the prices are sky high (more like $600,000-$800,000).
The builder's cost to build must be much lower than the general public. There was a lot behind us that sold for $100,000, but the buyers found they couldn't keep within their budget to build new, so they found a house in the neighborhood and re-sold the lot for $150,000. A builder ended up buying it and building a lavish house that they did manage to sell.
01-26-2016, 01:40 PM
Location: MSP
442 posts, read
588,739 times
Reputation: 570
Quote:
Originally Posted by
cathedralhill1
No, some really are $200,000+. And most of the new construction costs more than $499,900. Use a real estate mapper that can distinguish new construction and you can readily see how many of these there are accumulating in the SW quadrant of St. Paul and the prices are sky high (more like $600,000-$800,000).
The builder's cost to build must be much lower than the general public. There was a lot behind us that sold for $100,000, but the buyers found they couldn't keep within their budget to build new, so they found a house in the neighborhood and re-sold the lot for $150,000. A builder ended up buying it and building a lavish house that they did manage to sell.
Yes, it costs them less to build a spec home than it would cost you to build a custom home through them, though they profit in either scenario. I don't work with builders so I'm not an expert on how they operate, but I've been my own GC so I have a pretty good idea of what profit they expect from a custom build compared to what it actually costs to do.
I've sold newer homes in the suburbs, and older homes in the city. For me personally I prefer a home with some character rather than Floorplan B from 2012 in Development XYZ, and a high-quality rehabilitation of a mature home (not a cheap flip) does a lot more for a neighborhood than knocking them down and throwing up a cube with vinyl siding.
01-26-2016, 08:16 PM
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Of course North Minneapolis stays stagnant. Officers try to go in there, charter schools try to cater, services are poured into the area and it is clear many do not want the "help". So I really don't foresee anything happening in the near future until some major cultural shifts begin to happen, beginning with the youth.
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Median household income ($) - Black or African American
Median household income ($) - Asian
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Races - American Indian alone (% change since 2000)
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Races - Other race alone (%)
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Racial diversity
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Population density (people per square mile)
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Deaths caused by coronavirus (Mar 04, 2024)
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Hospitalized patients (Apr 18, 2022)
Negative test results (Apr 18, 2022)
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COVID Vaccine doses distributed (per 100k population) (Sep 19, 2023)
COVID Vaccine doses administered (per 100k population) (Sep 19, 2023)
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COVID Vaccine doses administered (Sep 19, 2023)
Likely homosexual households (%)
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Cost of living index
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Mean house or condo value by units in structure - 1, detached ($)
Mean house or condo value by units in structure - 1, attached ($)
Mean house or condo value by units in structure - 2 ($)
Mean house or condo value by units in structure by units in structure - 3 or 4 ($)
Mean house or condo value by units in structure - 5 or more ($)
Mean house or condo value by units in structure - Boat, RV, van, etc. ($)
Mean house or condo value by units in structure - Mobile home ($)
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Median resident age
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Commute - mean travel time to work (minutes)
Travel time to work - Less than 5 minutes (%)
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Year house built - Built 2000 to 2004 (%)
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Average household size
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Occupied housing units (%)
Vacant housing units (%)
Owner occupied housing units (%)
Renter occupied housing units (%)
Vacancy status - For rent (%)
Vacancy status - For sale only (%)
Vacancy status - Rented or sold, not occupied (%)
Vacancy status - For seasonal, recreational, or occasional use (%)
Vacancy status - For migrant workers (%)
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Residents with income below the poverty level (%)
Residents with income below 50% of the poverty level (%)
Children below poverty level (%)
Poor families by family type - Married-couple family (%)
Poor families by family type - Male, no wife present (%)
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Poverty status for native-born residents (%)
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Poverty among high school graduates not in families (%)
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Residents with income below the poverty level (%) - White
Residents with income below the poverty level (%) - Black or African American
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Residents with income below the poverty level (%) - Hispanic or Latino
Residents with income below the poverty level (%) - American Indian and Alaska Native
Residents with income below the poverty level (%) - Multirace
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Air pollution - Air Quality Index (AQI)
Air pollution - CO
Air pollution - NO2
Air pollution - SO2
Air pollution - Ozone
Air pollution - PM10
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Air pollution - Pb
Crime - Murders per 100,000 population
Crime - Rapes per 100,000 population
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Crime - Auto thefts per 100,000 population
Crime - Arson per 100,000 population
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Crime - Murders per 100,000 population (5 year average)
Crime - Rapes per 100,000 population (5 year average)
Crime - Robberies per 100,000 population (5 year average)
Crime - Assaults per 100,000 population (5 year average)
Crime - Burglaries per 100,000 population (5 year average)
Crime - Thefts per 100,000 population (5 year average)
Crime - Auto thefts per 100,000 population (5 year average)
Crime - Arson per 100,000 population (5 year average)
Crime - City-data.com crime index (5 year average)
Crime - Violent crime index (5 year average)
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1996 Presidential Elections Results (%) - Democratic Party (Clinton)
1996 Presidential Elections Results (%) - Republican Party (Dole)
1996 Presidential Elections Results (%) - Other
2000 Presidential Elections Results (%) - Democratic Party (Gore)
2000 Presidential Elections Results (%) - Republican Party (Bush)
2000 Presidential Elections Results (%) - Other
2004 Presidential Elections Results (%) - Democratic Party (Kerry)
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2004 Presidential Elections Results (%) - Other
2008 Presidential Elections Results (%) - Democratic Party (Obama)
2008 Presidential Elections Results (%) - Republican Party (McCain)
2008 Presidential Elections Results (%) - Other
2012 Presidential Elections Results (%) - Democratic Party (Obama)
2012 Presidential Elections Results (%) - Republican Party (Romney)
2012 Presidential Elections Results (%) - Other
2016 Presidential Elections Results (%) - Democratic Party (Clinton)
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2020 Presidential Elections Results (%) - Democratic Party (Biden)
2020 Presidential Elections Results (%) - Republican Party (Trump)
2020 Presidential Elections Results (%) - Other
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Educational Attainment - No schooling completed (%)
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Urban houses (%)
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Mortgage status - with mortgage (%)
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Mortgage status - with home equity loan (%)
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Geographical mobility - Same house 1 year ago (%)
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Place of birth - Born in state of residence (%)
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Housing units in structures - 1, detached (%)
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House/condo owner moved in on average (years ago)
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Year householder moved into unit - Moved in 1999 to March 2000 (%)
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Means of transportation to work - Drove car alone (%)
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Working at home (%)
Industry diversity
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Occupation diversity
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People in Group quarters - Institutionalized population (%)
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People in Group quarters - Institutions for the deaf (%)
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People in Group quarters - On base (%)
People in Group quarters - Barracks, unaccompanied personnel housing (UPH), (Enlisted/Officer), ;and similar group living quarters for military personnel (%)
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People in Group quarters - Homes for the mentally retarded (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes for the physically handicapped (%)
People in Group quarters - Other group homes (%)
People in Group quarters - Religious group quarters (%)
People in Group quarters - Dormitories (%)
People in Group quarters - Agriculture workers' dormitories on farms (%)
People in Group quarters - Job Corps and vocational training facilities (%)
People in Group quarters - Other workers' dormitories (%)
People in Group quarters - Crews of maritime vessels (%)
People in Group quarters - Other nonhousehold living situations (%)
People in Group quarters - Other noninstitutional group quarters (%)
Residents speaking English at home (%)
Residents speaking English at home - Born in the United States (%)
Residents speaking English at home - Native, born elsewhere (%)
Residents speaking English at home - Foreign born (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home - Born in the United States (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home - Native, born elsewhere (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home - Foreign born (%)
Residents speaking other language at home (%)
Residents speaking other language at home - Born in the United States (%)
Residents speaking other language at home - Native, born elsewhere (%)
Residents speaking other language at home - Foreign born (%)
Class of Workers - Employee of private company (%)
Class of Workers - Self-employed in own incorporated business (%)
Class of Workers - Private not-for-profit wage and salary workers (%)
Class of Workers - Local government workers (%)
Class of Workers - State government workers (%)
Class of Workers - Federal government workers (%)
Class of Workers - Self-employed workers in own not incorporated business and Unpaid family workers (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Utility gas (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Bottled, tank, or LP gas (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Electricity (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Fuel oil, kerosene, etc. (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Coal or coke (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Wood (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Solar energy (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Other fuel (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - No fuel used (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Utility gas (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Bottled, tank, or LP gas (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Electricity (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Fuel oil, kerosene, etc. (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Coal or coke (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Wood (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Solar energy (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Other fuel (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - No fuel used (%)
Armed forces status - In Armed Forces (%)
Armed forces status - Civilian (%)
Armed forces status - Civilian - Veteran (%)
Armed forces status - Civilian - Nonveteran (%)
Fatal accidents locations in years 2005-2021
Fatal accidents locations in 2005
Fatal accidents locations in 2006
Fatal accidents locations in 2007
Fatal accidents locations in 2008
Fatal accidents locations in 2009
Fatal accidents locations in 2010
Fatal accidents locations in 2011
Fatal accidents locations in 2012
Fatal accidents locations in 2013
Fatal accidents locations in 2014
Fatal accidents locations in 2015
Fatal accidents locations in 2016
Fatal accidents locations in 2017
Fatal accidents locations in 2018
Fatal accidents locations in 2019
Fatal accidents locations in 2020
Fatal accidents locations in 2021
Alcohol use - People drinking some alcohol every month (%)
Alcohol use - People not drinking at all (%)
Alcohol use - Average days/month drinking alcohol
Alcohol use - Average drinks/week
Alcohol use - Average days/year people drink much
Audiometry - Average condition of hearing (%)
Audiometry - People that can hear a whisper from across a quiet room (%)
Audiometry - People that can hear normal voice from across a quiet room (%)
Audiometry - Ears ringing, roaring, buzzing (%)
Audiometry - Had a job exposure to loud noise (%)
Audiometry - Had off-work exposure to loud noise (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Has high blood pressure (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Checking blood pressure at home (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Frequently checking blood cholesterol (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Has high cholesterol level (%)
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on food at supermarket/grocery store
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on food at other stores
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on eating out
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on carryout/delivered foods
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on food at supermarket/grocery store (%)
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on food at other stores (%)
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on eating out (%)
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on carryout/delivered foods (%)
Current Health Status - General health condition (%)
Current Health Status - Blood donors (%)
Current Health Status - Has blood ever tested for HIV virus (%)
Current Health Status - Left-handed people (%)
Dermatology - People using sunscreen (%)
Diabetes - Diabetics (%)
Diabetes - Had a blood test for high blood sugar (%)
Diabetes - People taking insulin (%)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Diet health (%)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Milk product consumption (# of products/month)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Meals not home prepared (#/week)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Meals from fast food or pizza place (#/week)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Ready-to-eat foods (#/month)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Frozen meals/pizza (#/month)
Drug Use - People that ever used marijuana or hashish (%)
Drug Use - Ever used hard drugs (%)
Drug Use - Ever used any form of cocaine (%)
Drug Use - Ever used heroin (%)
Drug Use - Ever used methamphetamine (%)
Health Insurance - People covered by health insurance (%)
Kidney Conditions-Urology - Avg. # of times urinating at night
Medical Conditions - People with asthma (%)
Medical Conditions - People with anemia (%)
Medical Conditions - People with psoriasis (%)
Medical Conditions - People with overweight (%)
Medical Conditions - Elderly people having difficulties in thinking or remembering (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever received blood transfusion (%)
Medical Conditions - People having trouble seeing even with glass/contacts (%)
Medical Conditions - People with arthritis (%)
Medical Conditions - People with gout (%)
Medical Conditions - People with congestive heart failure (%)
Medical Conditions - People with coronary heart disease (%)
Medical Conditions - People with angina pectoris (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever had heart attack (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever had stroke (%)
Medical Conditions - People with emphysema (%)
Medical Conditions - People with thyroid problem (%)
Medical Conditions - People with chronic bronchitis (%)
Medical Conditions - People with any liver condition (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever had cancer or malignancy (%)
Mental Health - People who have little interest in doing things (%)
Mental Health - People feeling down, depressed, or hopeless (%)
Mental Health - People who have trouble sleeping or sleeping too much (%)
Mental Health - People feeling tired or having little energy (%)
Mental Health - People with poor appetite or overeating (%)
Mental Health - People feeling bad about themself (%)
Mental Health - People who have trouble concentrating on things (%)
Mental Health - People moving or speaking slowly or too fast (%)
Mental Health - People having thoughts they would be better off dead (%)
Oral Health - Average years since last visit a dentist
Oral Health - People embarrassed because of mouth (%)
Oral Health - People with gum disease (%)
Oral Health - General health of teeth and gums (%)
Oral Health - Average days a week using dental floss/device
Oral Health - Average days a week using mouthwash for dental problem
Oral Health - Average number of teeth
Pesticide Use - Households using pesticides to control insects (%)
Pesticide Use - Households using pesticides to kill weeds (%)
Physical Activity - People doing vigorous-intensity work activities (%)
Physical Activity - People doing moderate-intensity work activities (%)
Physical Activity - People walking or bicycling (%)
Physical Activity - People doing vigorous-intensity recreational activities (%)
Physical Activity - People doing moderate-intensity recreational activities (%)
Physical Activity - Average hours a day doing sedentary activities
Physical Activity - Average hours a day watching TV or videos
Physical Activity - Average hours a day using computer
Physical Functioning - People having limitations keeping them from working (%)
Physical Functioning - People limited in amount of work they can do (%)
Physical Functioning - People that need special equipment to walk (%)
Physical Functioning - People experiencing confusion/memory problems (%)
Physical Functioning - People requiring special healthcare equipment (%)
Prescription Medications - Average number of prescription medicines taking
Preventive Aspirin Use - Adults 40+ taking low-dose aspirin (%)
Reproductive Health - Vaginal deliveries (%)
Reproductive Health - Cesarean deliveries (%)
Reproductive Health - Deliveries resulted in a live birth (%)
Reproductive Health - Pregnancies resulted in a delivery (%)
Reproductive Health - Women breastfeeding newborns (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that had a hysterectomy (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that had both ovaries removed (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that have ever taken birth control pills (%)
Reproductive Health - Women taking birth control pills (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that have ever used Depo-Provera or injectables (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that have ever used female hormones (%)
Sexual Behavior - People 18+ that ever had sex (vaginal, anal, or oral) (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever had vaginal sex with a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever performed oral sex on a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever had anal sex with a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever had any sex with a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever had vaginal sex with a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever performed oral sex on a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever had anal sex with a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever had any kind of sex with a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Average age people first had sex
Sexual Behavior - Average number of female sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of female vaginal sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average age people first performed oral sex on a woman (18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of woman performed oral sex on in lifetime (18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male anal sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average age people first performed oral sex on a man (18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male oral sex partners in lifetime (18+)
Sexual Behavior - People using protection when performing oral sex (%)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of times people have vaginal or anal sex a year
Sexual Behavior - People having sex without condom (%)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male sex partners in lifetime (females 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male vaginal sex partners in lifetime (females 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of female sex partners in lifetime (females 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Circumcised males 18+ (%)
Sleep Disorders - Average hours sleeping at night
Sleep Disorders - People that has trouble sleeping (%)
Smoking-Cigarette Use - People smoking cigarettes (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ having problems with smell (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ having problems with taste (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had wisdom teeth removed (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had tonsils teeth removed (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had a loss of consciousness because of a head injury (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had a broken nose or other serious injury to face or skull (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had two or more sinus infections (%)
Weight - Average height (inches)
Weight - Average weight (pounds)
Weight - Average BMI
Weight - People that are obese (%)
Weight - People that ever were obese (%)
Weight - People trying to lose weight (%)