Human lives don't matter? (Roseville: felony, home, allergy)

[tlarnla]

Originally Posted by Glenfield

By stabbing the dog he showed that he was willing to use a deadly weapon on those who came to apprehend him. He could have easily avoided being shot by putting down his knife and surrendering to the police.

I disagree. I believe that if you put most people into the same situation, where they're trapped in a closet with only a knife to defend themselves, I would guess there would be a 50/50 chance that they would try to fight back against the dog, but only a 5% chance that they would attack an armed human police officer.

We know that the human police officer has the ability to think like a human being, and most of us assume they will take us unharmed if we surrender peacefully. We don't always know that with an animal, especially an animal that's been trained to attack.

Moreover, some people are really afraid of dogs, any dog. And most people would be afraid of a huge german shepard barking in their face. That's one reason the police use them, to intimidate people.

Imagine if you were in the same situation. Are you absolutely sure you would put down your weapon and just hope that the dog doesn't go for your throat? Is that what your instinct would be?

[Glenfield]

Originally Posted by tlarnla

According to the audio from police radio , there was a lot of noise when the police arrived, he said he had been robbed, then he settled down and everything became quiet. So they decided to break in. One officer later said there was a warrant for his arrest (after they made the decision to break in). That same officer also said that he probably does not even know that there is a warrant for his arrest.

Had they not sent the K9 in after him it might have been a police officer who was stabbed. The lives of police officers don't matter to you.

[Ghengis]

from the strib article...

...Around 9:40 p.m., aneighbor heard shouting coming from Birkeland’s third-floor apartment on the1600 block of County Road B. According to police, residents have witnessedsimilar “mental outbursts” in the past and were told to call police when such incidentsoccur. Police have had four previous contacts with Birkeland since May 2015,records show.

On Wednesday, about 10minutes later, officers arrived and tried to talk to Birkeland, saying, “John,we are worried about you” and “please open the door,” a resident of thebuilding said.Birkeland refused, telling police he was “fine” but had lost his wallet. Aftergetting no further response and learning that there was a warrant for hisarrest from a December case in which he gave a false name to police, officersdecided to go in. They announced to Birkeland that a K-9 dog would be used tosearch his apartment. When Birkeland stabbed the dog, police fired. Officersoffered aid to Birkeland, but he died at the scene...

from MPR...
Roseville officers fatally shoot man who stabbed police dog | Minnesota Public Radio News
Officerswere called to an apartment building on the 1600 block of County Road B inRoseville at about 10 p.m. Wednesday because neighbors heard pounding,profanity and breaking glass coming from the man's unit, according to astatement from department spokesperson Lt. Lorne Rosand.

Policesay residents told officers that Birkeland had a history of "mentaloutbursts."...

Officersasked the man in the apartment if he was alright. He replied that he was fine,but refused to open the door. Based on the night's incidents, comments the manhad made about being robbed and an active warrant in the name of theapartment's resident for previously providing a false name to police, officersdecided to force their way into the apartment, Rosand said.

"Entrywas made and the apartment was searched. As the officers were searching theunit's bedroom, the canine alerted to the room's closet," Rosand said inthe statement. "When officers ordered the person in the closet tosurrender, he opened the closet door and stabbed the canine in the head."

[tlarnla]

Don't be ridiculous Glenfield. The police officers had guns and shot him dead. They would have done the same thing if he attacked them directly, and there was no dog there. They were completely able to defend themselves if he had attacked them.

It's also ridiculous to say that I don't care about the lives of police officers. I do not believe the lives of those officers were in danger. My concern is there seems to be a growing trend amongst Americans to value the lives of dogs more than the lives of humans. When this same case is discussed on social media, I see a lot of people saying that they also would have murdered any human that attacked their own dog.

[tlarnla]

The same two officers did kill another man a couple years ago, but you don't see me protesting that. That other man had a gun, so that killing does seem more like self-defense. I don't think the lives of the officers were in any danger in this case.

[Glenfield]

Originally Posted by tlarnla

The same two officers did kill another man a couple years ago, but you don't see me protesting that. That other man had a gun, so that killing does seem more like self-defense. I don't think the lives of the officers were in any danger in this case.

Your error is your assumption that a knife is not as deadly a weapon as a firearm. In fact, a suspect with a knife can cover 21 feet and inflict a potentially fatal stab wound faster than an officer can fire his weapon. Therefore standard police procedure calls for suspects within 21 feet to be shot if they are armed with a knife. That this individual had already stabbed the K9 demonstrated that he was willing to use deadly force and posed a grave danger to the officers.

They did not shoot him because they valued the dog's life over his, they shot him because he posed a deadly threat.

Police procedures: Officers trained to give knives proper respect - Longview News-Journal - Longview, TX

[erin2882]

tlarnla, I wish the police were better trained to deal with mental illness, or that it wasn't the police's problem and that we had better mental health programs, supervision, counselors etc. that could better help and subdue people in this situation. It is sad that a man lost his life, and I don't think anything you said indicated that you don't value police officers. That comment was clearly ridiculous since nothing you had said supported that conclusion.

I don't know that, had they not gone in with the k-9, it would have ended any better for the man, but it's possible. And to protect the dog, I don't think that is the right situation for a k-9 either. And if the man was being attacked, I don't blame him for stabbing the dog, I think any of us would do anything we could to escape a violent attack. The reports on that part of it seem unclear, and of course he is not here now to tell his side of the story. But it is sad that a clearly mentally ill individual is now dead, and that the police made decisions such as breaking in and sending the k-9 in that probably contributed to his death.

[Glenfield]

Originally Posted by erin2882

tlarnla, I wish the police were better trained to deal with mental illness, or that it wasn't the police's problem and that we had better mental health programs, supervision, counselors etc. that could better help and subdue people in this situation. It is sad that a man lost his life, and I don't think anything you said indicated that you don't value police officers. That comment was clearly ridiculous since nothing you had said supported that conclusion.

I don't know that, had they not gone in with the k-9, it would have ended any better for the man, but it's possible. And to protect the dog, I don't think that is the right situation for a k-9 either. And if the man was being attacked, I don't blame him for stabbing the dog, I think any of us would do anything we could to escape a violent attack. The reports on that part of it seem unclear, and of course he is not here now to tell his side of the story. But it is sad that a clearly mentally ill individual is now dead, and that the police made decisions such as breaking in and sending the k-9 in that probably contributed to his death.

You want to talk about something that's clearly ridiculous?Nothing in the incident suggests that "human lives don't matter" or that more value is placed on dogs' lives than humans', but that's the ridiculous premise of this thread. Ridiculous.

You want another example of clearly ridiculous? The idea that you and the OP have a better understanding of the situation than the trained peace officers who were on the scene.

[Hockeygirl063]

If they tell you to come out and you son't heed the warning then tough luck for you how about listening to the police.

[Glenfield]

Originally Posted by Hockeygirl063

If they tell you to come out and you son't heed the warning then tough luck for you how about listening to the police.

And there's always the alternative of not committing a crime in order to avoid the whole outstanding warrant issue.