Wow when did Mpls become so protest happy (city hall, tax)

[blackpointyboots]

Telling the oppressed how they can protest without making you feel uncomfortable is a really privileged stance to take.

In many ways the police have an active role in that oppression. The traffic stops of anyone the police think "don't belong" in Falcon Heights is a prime example. MN is generally a good place but it does have some horribly racist people just like anywhere else. Systemic racism is also so built into many existing systems that even those who are not openly racists don't realize those systems are racist and have a historical root in very racist policies from the past.

[jpdivola]

Originally Posted by blackpointyboots

Telling the oppressed how they can protest without making you feel uncomfortable is a really privileged stance to take.

Well for better or worse, social change comes from winning hearts and minds. Might not like it, might not be fair in some moral sense, but that is how the world works.

I'm not Black so I can't speak to these protests. But, I'm a gay man so I'm at least in a small way aware of the struggle for equal rights with a direct personal impact. I remember one time some gay rights activists shut down traffic to protest anti-gay hate crimes. I obviously agreed with the cause, but was completely turned off by the approach. I ended up getting late to work. The protest didn't leave feeling impassioned to fight for justice, but rather annoyed at the organizers. That seemed to be the general consensus of everyone else.

By contrast, I remember seeing some gun violence protesters one time. They put together stories and visuals showing people that had been killed by gun violence. The stories were heart breaking. I left with a new appreciation for a cause I hadn't given a lot of thought to before.

[Minnesota Spring]

Originally Posted by jpdivola

Well for better or worse, social change comes from winning hearts and minds. Might not like it, might not be fair in some moral sense, but that is how the world works.

I'm not Black so I can't speak to these protests. But, I'm a gay man so I'm at least in a small way aware of the struggle for equal rights with a direct personal impact. I remember one time some gay rights activists shut down traffic to protest anti-gay hate crimes. I obviously agreed with the cause, but was completely turned off by the approach. I ended up getting late to work. The protest didn't leave feeling impassioned to fight for justice, but rather annoyed at the organizers. That seemed to be the general consensus of everyone else.

By contrast, I remember seeing some gun violence protesters one time. They put together stories and visuals showing people that had been killed by gun violence. The stories were heart breaking. I left with a new appreciation for a cause I hadn't given a lot of thought to before.

I totally agree. Many people that I speak to that are for the cause are turned off by these dangerous freeway blockades. There are many more constructive ways that people can fight for the cause, but these freeway and airport shutdowns do the opposite and are harmful to the community as a whole.

[blackpointyboots]

For those that don't understand why groups are blockading freeways.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...ights-protest/

[Brinson]

Originally Posted by Minnesota Spring

I totally agree. Many people that I speak to that are for the cause are turned off by these dangerous freeway blockades. There are many more constructive ways that people can fight for the cause, but these freeway and airport shutdowns do the opposite and are harmful to the community as a whole.

The not constructive thibgs they do are the only reason anyone has heard of them.

That being said-- now is the opportunity to have a more serious social dialogue about the issues. However, no one would have paid attention without the extreme protesting.

[Mason3000]

I support blocking the freeways. Better they attack cops and riot on the freeways, than shops, civilians and neighborhoods. Once people riot in a neighborhood, it can take generations to rebuild. North Mpls and Summit-U are great examples.

[rcsteiner]

Originally Posted by Mason3000

I support blocking the freeways. Better they attack cops and riot on the freeways, than shops, civilians and neighborhoods. Once people riot in a neighborhood, it can take generations to rebuild. North Mpls and Summit-U are great examples.

I think I agree with this. It's a better way to make a nationally visible statement than trashing one of more innocent neighborhoods or businesses.

[jpdivola]

Originally Posted by Brinson

The not constructive thibgs they do are the only reason anyone has heard of them.

That being said-- now is the opportunity to have a more serious social dialogue about the issues. However, no one would have paid attention without the extreme protesting.

That is a fair point, there is a logic to extremism. But, I worry that divisive tactics without tangible goals will simply inflame the situation and turn off moderates. The large protests attract attention, but they also divert it from the underlying grievance to debates over confrontational tactics. Many people (particularly white conservatives) have an inability or a simple unwilliness to understand the source of black grievances. But, shutting down highways allows them to sound measured, instead of clueless (at best).

Maybe I'm too niave, but I would like to think that candle light vigils, peaceful marches, thoughtful speaches and coalition building tied to a concrete reform agenda will do far more to improve policing in America.

We need a concrete legislative agenda for police reforms. One bill for the federal government and more importantly model bills for the states and local governments to implement justice reforms. We know the basic outlines, the White House has already put together some voluntary best practice stuff. Most of it is common sense stuff that isn't super controversal.

To borrow the example of the Civil Rights Act or the Voting Rights Act, lets have a tangible "Justice Rights Act." Rally liberal Americans with a chance to support the civil rights act of our time. But, reach out to conservative groups. Work with reform-minded police chiefs, right-leaning libertarians concerned about government power, the business community who want to be seen as tolerant and inclusive, and evangelical faith leaders. Provide opportunities for citizens to organize, lobby, and yes ultimately consider boycotts against states that refuse to pass "justice reform." Let's make support for the "Justice Rights Act" a moral litmous test for Americans.

I know a concrete "legislative bill" won't solve all the problems, there will still be work to do, but it would do far more tangible good to improve peoples' lives than amorphous speeches about "ending white supremecy" or youtube videos with white Ivy-Leaguers apologizing for their "white privilege."

[spectre000]

Originally Posted by Minnesota Spring

I totally agree. Many people that I speak to that are for the cause are turned off by these dangerous freeway blockades. There are many more constructive ways that people can fight for the cause, but these freeway and airport shutdowns do the opposite and are harmful to the community as a whole.

I hear this too and I'm at a loss. So a group of people who obstruct their daily commute or weekend shopping at the MoA makes them less supportive of ending racism? "Hey I see BLM is blocking another highway during rush hour, so now I'm not gonna care when a cop shoots another African-American..." That's moderate white America for you I guess. Protest away, just don't interfere with my peaceful social order. Sorry you can't find justice in this world, but my commute is more important than your little cause.

It's sad that it takes blocking highways to get the rest of the country's attention. But I think that's where we are as a county at the moment. Police departments don't get it. The country's white political leadership doesn't get it. And certainly white moderate America doesn't either.

[jpdivola]

Originally Posted by spectre000

I hear this too and I'm at a loss. So a group of people who obstruct their daily commute or weekend shopping at the MoA makes them less supportive of ending racism? "Hey I see BLM is blocking another highway during rush hour, so now I'm not gonna care when a cop shoots another African-American..." That's moderate white America for you I guess. Protest away, just don't interfere with my peaceful social order. Sorry you can't find justice in this world, but my commute is more important than your little cause.

It's sad that it takes blocking highways to get the rest of the country's attention. But I think that's where we are as a county at the moment. Police departments don't get it. The country's white political leadership doesn't get it. And certainly white moderate America doesn't either.

There are good reasons to take white Americans to task for being indifferent to the problem. But, what is the ultimate result? A moral victory.


Moderate white Americans sort of remind me of moderate Muslims, in that when pressed on "terrorism" they condem it, but don't know what they at an individual level can do to stop it? I think it comes down to the question what is the specific ask? As I stated above I think it is a tangible criminal justice reform agenda. IMO, we should focus on themes of unity and equality to rally support for tangible reforms.