Minneapolis versus Madison (for a Student) (St. Paul, St. Cloud: apartment, how much, job openings)

[kemachs]

Just thought I'd add my two cents. I'm a senior in H.S. doing PSEO at the U of M, and I for one am definitely going to UW next year. Don't get me wrong, UofM is a good school and all, but I went to visit Madison last month and loved it! I was really looking for that whole college vibe, and Minneapolis doesn't have it. Yeah yeah, some students will argue dinkytown, etc. have that feel, but that really doesn't do it for me. I think part of the reason is that here, the college population pales in comparison to the rest of the city's population, whereas in Madison the student body makes up almost 1/4 of it. And I'm not sure if you like the whole bohemian, artsy-type scene, but I do, and it's alive and well more so in Madison than here. Obviously you should spend time at both campuses, try to start some conversations (even our servers at UNOs in maddytown were friendly and outgoing), and see which campus fits you. If a fun college town is what your looking for, I think UW tops UofM any day, but if your looking for a more metropolitan, fast-paced area with more events/restaurants/people, then I'd say go with Minisodaa.

[Debral]

OK, I am just going to add a few comments. My daughter graduated from the U of M-TC last May and I believe she got a far superior education than she would have gotten at UWM. The U of M is one of the top research universities in the country, has world-class medical facilities, almost any type of recreational/activity you want, since it is the second largest college in the country (after Ohio State), and has dorms or at least floors on dorms with specialized interests for students (such as art, honors dorms, diversity, French, etc.). Also, it only costs $50 per semester for a full bus pass which will take you ANYWHERE in the metro at any time of day that the bus goes. The campus bus shuttles are free to students. Bigger isn't always better, but the quality of the education at a top research university like the U of M is huge when the cost is the same. Class sizes are a big thing, especially if you need extra help. As a parent, I found the U of M to be very responsive to the one issue I had with one of my daughter's classes. They bent over backwards to allay my concerns. Even though not all of the sports are the best, there are lots of cultural events (yes, at student discounts) not available in a small city, and there are all kinds of special interest groups for students to join. It is a city within a city and I am very proud of my U of M graduate who landed her first job at one of the four major television networks!!!!

[kemachs]

Since when is the U of M superior to UW, education wise?

Maybe U.S. News and World Report isn't everything, but look where the two colleges rank on this list:
USNews.com: America's Best Colleges 2008: National Universities: Top Schools

Quite a difference, eh?

I won't argue that there are more cultural opportunities in Minneapolis, there are tons of things to do here, but how can you say the U of M is far superior if you've never sent your daughter to Wisconsin? UW is actually renowned for its research as well, and so far I have found the staff there extremely helpful.

Oh, and the buses are free for students at Madison. You're entitled to your opinion, if you loved the U of M that's great, but no need to be dissing UW.

[golfgal]

Originally Posted by kemachs

Since when is the U of M superior to UW, education wise?

Maybe U.S. News and World Report isn't everything, but look where the two colleges rank on this list:
USNews.com: America's Best Colleges 2008: National Universities: Top Schools

Quite a difference, eh?

I won't argue that there are more cultural opportunities in Minneapolis, there are tons of things to do here, but how can you say the U of M is far superior if you've never sent your daughter to Wisconsin? UW is actually renowned for its research as well, and so far I have found the staff there extremely helpful.

Oh, and the buses are free for students at Madison. You're entitled to your opinion, if you loved the U of M that's great, but no need to be dissing UW.

Did you read the qualifications for that survey, class size, alumni giving, etc. Those don't really speak toward the quality of the schools. Yes, Madison is a very good school but it is considerably smaller then the U of M and therefore many of those statistics are going to be skewed because of the size difference. Throw in a school like St. Johns in there and they will rank #1 with those criteria.

[pepe1]

Originally Posted by Debral

OK, I am just going to add a few comments. My daughter graduated from the U of M-TC last May and I believe she got a far superior education than she would have gotten at UWM. The U of M is one of the top research universities in the country, has world-class medical facilities, almost any type of recreational/activity you want, since it is the second largest college in the country (after Ohio State), and has dorms or at least floors on dorms with specialized interests for students (such as art, honors dorms, diversity, French, etc.). Also, it only costs $50 per semester for a full bus pass which will take you ANYWHERE in the metro at any time of day that the bus goes. The campus bus shuttles are free to students. Bigger isn't always better, but the quality of the education at a top research university like the U of M is huge when the cost is the same. Class sizes are a big thing, especially if you need extra help. As a parent, I found the U of M to be very responsive to the one issue I had with one of my daughter's classes. They bent over backwards to allay my concerns. Even though not all of the sports are the best, there are lots of cultural events (yes, at student discounts) not available in a small city, and there are all kinds of special interest groups for students to join. It is a city within a city and I am very proud of my U of M graduate who landed her first job at one of the four major television networks!!!!

This depends somewhat on what you plan to major in, but generally speaking, the University of Wisconsin is considered a better academic instituion.

[roneb]

Both are very good schools, but as an outside observer whose oldest daughter is starting to look at colleges, Wisconsin ranks higher than UofM in almost every poll/website; not just USNews.

[Gruffalo]

I think UofM TC and UWM are close enough in overall academic reputation that you would need to make comparisons at the program level to definitively say "this is better than that." However, UWM has been losing a lot of its best faculty lately because they just aren't being paid competitive salaries. If this continues, UWM's reputation will go downhill fast (the article listed below just accelerated that process). Also, faculty turnover wreaks havoc with course offerings, which could mess up even a well layed out academic plan.
The Chronicle of Higher Education

If you are likely going on to grad school, my advice for the undergrad choice would be to put the most weight on campus feel. Go somewhere that you'll be excited about everyday. Have fun, keep at least a 3.4 GPA (which is not hard today) and then get ready to work your butt off at the best grad program you can get into. That will be the degree that matters.

[huggybear28]

For each University as a whole, UW is harder to get into and is ranked higher. I believe in the late 80's they presented themselves with a choice of admitting more students or stabilizing out the student population and make it harder to get in. They made the decision to stabilize the student population while Minnesota has made the choice to admit more students. With this process Madison has tightened up their admissions. Although over the last few years Minnesota has started to raise the the bar for admissions as well by doing the same. The ACT scores and average GPA are much higher than when I was admitted although still slightly below Madison. When looking at 4 year graduation rates, Madison's is higher. This can be attributed to the fact they do not have minors compared to Minnesota where they do. I expect Minnesota get rid of minors in the next few years as they do not really mean that much. As well, they got rid of the general college at Minnesota which will help them. The four year graduation rate is one of the main reasons why Madison is always ranked higher than Minnesota. It is not the fact that they have easier programs at Minnesota but that these ranking are based off graduation rates, GPA, and ACT scores.

The real thing you want to look into is department ranking if you already know what major you are going into. Because the schools are similar in many ways department rankings can be a great way to decide on where you want to be. For my degree in Engineering, the department at Minnesota ranked much higher than Madison, which certainly factored into my decision.

For the funding and teacher issues Minnesota has much more going for it then Madison. Wisconsin has not had a budget surplus for years and they are always cutting from the UW system. They took huge cuts in the early 2000's. With the economy the way it is right now Wisconsin can only expect many more cuts. With the twin cities, Minnesota has seen much brighter budget forecasts than Wisconsin. With the legislature being very generous to the University, Minnesota is using it to improve their rankings. Even with the budget deficits in Minnesota, the University is bound to take a smaller hit due to the political climate in the legislature. That is compared to Wisconsin where I can assure you the UW system will continue to see large budget deficits and cuts. The Wisconsin assembly always cuts money from the University before they cut from anywhere else as the board of regents has angered many republicans in their attempts to get same sex couples benefits. The democrats have control right now in the senate but with their many tax proposals I expect they will lose control by 2010. With the democrats losing control in the senate in Wisconsin and if the democrats do not take the governor's seat in 2010, you can expect enormous cuts from the UW system. The political climate in Wisconsin is definitely not in favor of the UW system. Minnesota has been a bit less harsh although with the predicted future budgets the University systems in Minnesota will take some cuts as well.

One last factor is that Minnesota also has a much better job market around the metro area than Madison, which is definitely a consideration you want to take into account. It's not Madison's fault as a University, but that is what you get when you compare a metropolitan area with 2.5 million compared to a metropolitan area with 300,000. Also that's nice Madison gives free bus passes, but for students who live on campus and do not ride them often enough it is worth it to be able to choose whether they want it or not instead of being automatically charged like at Madison.

[kemachs]

Huggybear, that may be true about the budget issues at Wisconsin (it must be, since the link Gruffalo posted clearly states it), but when I was there they were rebuilding or remodeling every other building around campus... Where are they getting the money for all this construction if they're in debt? Couldn't they save some of that money and, oh I don't know, increase the salaries a bit?

[pepe1]

Originally Posted by huggybear28

The real thing you want to look into is department ranking if you already know what major you are going into. Because the schools are similar in many ways department rankings can be a great way to decide on where you want to be. For my degree in Engineering, the department at Minnesota ranked much higher than Madison, which certainly factored into my decision..

May I ask which specific engineering discipline you are persuing/obtained? Many of Wisconsin's Engineering programs are very highly regarded in the engineering community.