Study: Mpls. Can't Even Graduate Half Its Students (Minneapolis, Cleveland: neighborhoods, public schools)

[golfgal]

Originally Posted by Doc. T.

Educational dynamics are perplexing. Certainly, there are a bevy of factors that impact outcomes. Yet, at some level, maybe late HS or early college, I would like to see attention given to cognitive abilities. It would be nice if it could be wedded to the importance of personal-social skills. I think it would make a person both more successful and satisfied in whatever vocation they pursue.

While teaching at the university level in China during the mid '80ties, I was often impressed with the ability my students had to speak four foreign languages by the time they graduated. Plus, they had an ingratiating personality that made them a joy with which to interact. They held a common vision that was entirely beyond themselves. To "make China a dominate player in the global economy." I know all of the arguments about selection etc.; nonetheless, they got the job done. Many of those students are now leaders of organizations that have changed the way we all live.

That attitude also came from their families and their communities--they stressed getting a good education. That is the missing link between the inner city schools and the suburban schools. Our high school has 80% attendance at parent/teacher conferences--that shows that they CARE that their student is doing well. I doubt that the Minneapolis high schools are even close to that.

[Slig]

Originally Posted by golfgal

This is where you are wrong. 90+% of suburban graduates go onto some kind of advanced education, 94% in our district with 90% of those going on to a 4 year college.

I will say it again, it isn't the teachers that are the problems in the Minneapolis schools, it is the families that attend school there!

What percentage of that 90% graduate from college?

[Doc. T.]

Originally Posted by golfgal

That attitude also came from their families and their communities--they stressed getting a good education. That is the missing link between the inner city schools and the suburban schools. Our high school has 80% attendance at parent/teacher conferences--that shows that they CARE that their student is doing well. I doubt that the Minneapolis high schools are even close to that.

Golfgal, thanks for the response. Now let me make sure I understand you correctly. I'm assuming the "attitude" that you're referring to pertains to Chinese students "doing good in school," because it is pressed by parents and community? If so, I do believe there is merit to that assertion. Interestingly though, our university environment never had any interaction with parents. Nor, was it ever stressed or even mentioned as important. Rather, the Communist Party made sure every student knew that it was an honor to be in college because they were intellectually deserving. They had passed rigorous entrance exams that had set them apart from all other students. Reinforcement to do good was established by the Party, the cognitive capacity for doing good was theirs.

China's socio-political policy also had an impact on secondary and post-secondary educational achievement. Some of my students had families that were devasted by Mao's Cultural Revolution. Husbands, wives and children were torn apart and sent to the countryside for re-education. Many perished, others were later reunited to press on with life. Some of my "learners" were even members of the Young Red Guard - united to purge communism from any of the evils of Western capitalism. Respectfully, I'd submit that the immediate parental influence to "do good," was not always prevalent. Beyond the limits of despair, these students prevailed with wit, well-being and a sense of transcendant vision. I was deeply humbled and quietly proud to be in their presence.

As per your high school, I'm thankful for every parent that takes time and effort to participant in meetings and events. Their energies are invaluable. Their contributions to their children, the school district and taxed-based school support are admirable. Kudos to them and their young ones that pursue education with both intellectual and emotional integrity. For those less fortunate, may they be encouraged to use their capacities to pursue and have the opportunity to pursue viable and satisfying outcomes. It all has to work together for the greater good to prevail.

Shalom.

[golfgal]

Originally Posted by Slig

What percentage of that 90% graduate from college?

A very high percentage I am guessing but I don't know for sure. Based on my own personal experience most of the kids that go to college graduate--not real concrete but of all of our friends, parents of band members, etc. that we are around none of them have had kids drop out of college.

[Slig]

Coming from the northern suburbs and keeping in contact with friends who graduated from Anoka, Coon Rapids, Blaine, Totino Grace and Champlain High Schools I'd say the amount of people I knew who graduated from high school was very high, probably around 90%. Of those who went to college I'd say probably that figure lies around 70%. Of those I know who went to college the amount that finished is probably about 70%, although some of those plan on going back and finishing or are in the act of doing so. I'm 26 now so it isn't completely uncommon for people of that age range to still be working on a college degree.

[MNNative]

I found this article, it's from 2006 mind you, but I think it sort of lends to what we've been talking about (on one education thread or another).

The Wall Street Journal Online - Cross Country

It's funny since there has been a lot of talk about lower income families not encouraging education and how poorer kids are to blame, more or less, for messing up the schools. Yet this article is all about the opposite; just how much lower income families are searching for that right opportunity.

Can someone help me understand...
If low income kids are not attending traditional Mpls public schools anymore, then are most of those schools made up of middle and upper class income families?
In regard to this article, are they reporting that Mpls schools can't teach black kids? Is there a different way to teach people of different colors?

I guess I'm too unfamiliar with the school system to grasp the big picture.

[Slig]

I think a larger factor is the amount of students who aren't proficient in the English language. This challenge is very present in Minneapolis and St. Paul schools and basically non-existant in suburb schools. I think this skews graduation rates as well as test scores for the city schools.

[Ben Around]

Originally Posted by MNNative

I agree, it has a TON to do with the individual child and I personally see it as the parents' responsibility to instill the right motivations in their children. At the same time, and I think this is the point Golfgal is making, how does a well-rounded student do in an equally motivated classroom versus a classroom that is configured of a bunch of non-motivated troublemakers? My daughter (the only one of my kids that is school aged) is very intelligent and absolutely loves school, but does that necessarily mean she will continue in that spirit if she is surrounded by negative-influences during these impressionable years? Rankings may not completely reflect a district, but they can serve as a glimpse into what you can be getting into.

Yes, rankings may not be the best way to decide upon a school district or particular school attendance area to move into, but then what is a person supposed to do? For those dealing with education decisions for the first time or early on, what is the best way to decide what's going to be best? For older kids you have a better understanding and you can judge of the interests they have,etc...for an almost 6 year old who's going into 1st grade...it's not so easy.

Your daughter sounds a lot like mine. My daughter absolutely LOVED to learn (still does at age 20). She was reading at the 12th grade level in 4th grade. She went from K thru graduation in the St Paul Public School System. Yes, there were many kids from struggling families (language, poverty), but that did not keep her from taking IB courses, graduating *** laude, getting accepted and being awarded $46k in scholarship money from a so-called "highly selective" private liberal arts college. Participation in parent/student activites was low among many of these kids, but was high among those middle class families who live in my neighborhood. My daughter thrived in the public school system, just as she thrives as a student on the Dean's List in college today.

My point is, you don't paint an entire school district as "bad" because more kids have lower test scores (or come from lower income families) than those districts with "good" test scores and higher income students.

[Ben Around]

Originally Posted by Doc. T.

As per your high school, I'm thankful for every parent that takes time and effort to participant in meetings and events. Their energies are invaluable. Their contributions to their children, the school district and taxed-based school support are admirable. Kudos to them and their young ones that pursue education with both intellectual and emotional integrity. For those less fortunate, may they be encouraged to use their capacities to pursue and have the opportunity to pursue viable and satisfying outcomes. It all has to work together for the greater good to prevail.

I couldn't have said it better myself, Doc. T. At my daughter's elementary school, many of the active parents reached out to those low-income students who were struggling both in school and at home. Nothing to write a movie about, but I saw some kids really shine despite their own family situations. Beats the heck out of packing up and moving to the "best" school district because somehow that is supposed to give our own child a leg up.

[MNNative]

Originally Posted by Ben Around

My point is, you don't paint an entire school district as "bad" because more kids have lower test scores (or come from lower income families) than those districts with "good" test scores and higher income students.

That's the way I'm looking at it. It's hard for me to accept blanket statements about, well, anything really cause there will always be exceptions and really unless you've lived it or are living it it's tough to speak out about anything and retain as much credibility. I for one really appreciate this forum for that...what I don't know or understand, there are tons of people who do and are willing to share their knowledge. THANK YOU! I just have to get over the reputation that Mpls schools have just like I got over the whole North Mpls blanket.

To touch upon your other post, Ben Around, many people I seem to talk to voice that the more parental involvement and encouragement, the higher probability of success no matter what district. We already do that and I'm volunteering in something or other at her school/class all the time and I'd obviously continue that wherever else.

In thinking about it, her current school is a pretty diverse group of kids. Upper income in gorgeous homes to lower income section 8 residents...white to every other color...and there are little to no problems. I haven't felt like she's being held back or negatively influenced because (and I'm estimating, I've never actually thought about it til now) 50% of her class is non-white or however many might be from low income families. Thought goes into things more than it might in a totally affluent neighborhood (we don't charge $20/child to get into the carnival for instance). I don't really know where I'm going with this but it's helping me think about things so...yeah. Thanks for "listening" I guess.