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How about instead of "thinking " and "feeling" people present statistics that support why they are thinking or feeling that way? Maybe that would show at least an effort to keep from personalizing the discussion.
I've observed the uncomfortable state of affairs in downtown Mpls increase over the years but it's important to have a basis for that fact other than just personal opinion. I know I can't have been the only one who thought rescinding the loitering ordinance would work against safety.
What might cause people to deny the obvious problem? For instance, with relative newcomers to the State we have a problem of relative comparison. If you moved here from Baltimore, St. Louis, Chicago etc. you are probably "feeling" that Mpls is still pretty safe. If you've lived here all your live you see the changes by comparing them to how Mpls was in a safer time. It's a common thing I've seen in families with violence in them. They are so accustomed to it that they don't see a lessor version as a problem.
We also have the problem that if political parties believe their voters are the ones committing the crime there may be increased denial. This is a pity - identifying and defending crime based on ideology - but it's a trend we now have to contend with. There are a rising group of Americans who "feel" if their cause is just that crime is defensible.
Finally, it's important in cases of community violence to detect the trend early and take steps to head it off at the pass before it reaches unmanageable states that require Draconian measures. People need to be sensitive to peristalsis. Which direction is the trend moving in? Is it improving or declining? This is impossible to do using peoples' thoughts and feelings. It must be monitored by accurate statistics.
How about instead of "thinking " and "feeling" people present statistics that support why they are thinking or feeling that way? Maybe that would show at least an effort to keep from personalizing the discussion.
I've observed the uncomfortable state of affairs in downtown Mpls increase over the years but it's important to have a basis for that fact other than just personal opinion. I know I can't have been the only one who thought rescinding the loitering ordinance would work against safety.
What might cause people to deny the obvious problem? For instance, with relative newcomers to the State we have a problem of relative comparison. If you moved here from Baltimore, St. Louis, Chicago etc. you are probably "feeling" that Mpls is still pretty safe. If you've lived here all your live you see the changes by comparing them to how Mpls was in a safer time. It's a common thing I've seen in families with violence in them. They are so accustomed to it that they don't see a lessor version as a problem.
We also have the problem that if political parties believe their voters are the ones committing the crime there may be increased denial. This is a pity - identifying and defending crime based on ideology - but it's a trend we now have to contend with. There are a rising group of Americans who "feel" if their cause is just that crime is defensible.
Finally, it's important in cases of community violence to detect the trend early and take steps to head it off at the pass before it reaches unmanageable states that require Draconian measures. People need to be sensitive to peristalsis. Which direction is the trend moving in? Is it improving or declining? This is impossible to do using peoples' thoughts and feelings. It must be monitored by accurate statistics.
Who are you speaking to? All the conclusions I’ve drawn are based on a combination of data/statistics (some which have been provided in previous posts) and my personal experience of living within the city limits, spanning 12 years in 3 different locations and from living in the broader metropolitan area for more than 30 years.
If you look at the data you’d see that although there may be a slight increase in some crime categories that overall crime is pretty low when looking at crime data in the city over the last 20-30 years. Crime was objectively worse in the city when I was renting in Uptown in 2005 and it was worse when I first bought a house in the Powderhorn area in 2008 and significantly worse in 1995-1997 when there were close to 100 homicides a year. I think it’s fair to be concerned about the recent uptick but it is pretty far from the point that I would consider the city unsafe.
Who are you speaking to? All the conclusions I’ve drawn are based on a combination of data/statistics (some which has been provided in previous posts) and my personal experience of living within the city limits, spanning 12 years in 3 different locations and from living in the broader metropolitan area for more than 30 years.
I think you and I agreed that the available statistics are not very good, so we really can’t do more than rely on generalized data and anecdotes. I’d like more detail on what’s happening in my neighborhood but it’s just not there.
I think you and I agreed that the available statistics are not very good, so we really can’t do more than rely on generalized data and anecdotes. I’d like more detail on what’s happening in my neighborhood but it’s just not there.
Anecdotally though, have you noticed any changes in crime/safety in your neighborhood compared to years past? I haven’t at all here (Windom neighborhood). Here is it almost too quiet and reminiscent of when I lived in the suburbs.
Anecdotally though, have you noticed any changes in crime/safety in your neighborhood compared to years past? I haven’t at all here (Windom neighborhood). Here is it almost too quiet and reminiscent of when I lived in the suburbs.
There were a half dozen or so reports of gunfire over on Nicollet and 1st Ave between 42nd and 45th over the summer, which was unusual. We didn’t see anything over on our side of Kingfield though. There were a number of bike thefts over by the Rose Garden and I had some concern as our daughter meets friends there. We had a series of garage break ins last year but not this year. They must have caught the guy.
There were a half dozen or so reports of gunfire over on Nicollet and 1st Ave between 42nd and 45th over the summer, which was unusual. We didn’t see anything over on our side of Kingfield though. There were a number of bike thefts over by the Rose Garden and I had some concern as our daughter meets friends there. We had a series of garage break ins last year but not this year. They must have caught the guy.
Thanks for sharing. I will admit that things aren’t perfect. I just get frustrated when there are people using this platform to paint the city as a war zone in an apparent attempt to scare the public away from the visiting or living here, by grossly exaggerating its crime picture.
Where we currently live the worst I’ve heard in the last five years is the occasional Amazon package being snatched. Yes, things are pretty quiet here I would say.
So there was one incident that was captured on video and sensationalized by the media but that by no way means that if you attempt to walk downtown that you will immediately be gang assaulted by a group of merciless thugs. Nothing of the sort has happened to us and we do frequent downtown visiting the Central branch library on nearly a weekly basis (no, we don’t just go to an occasional Twins or Vikings game). We also frequent Loring Park, Stone Arch bridge, walk the skyways, walk down Nicollet Mall and Hennepin Ave, visit the Farmer’s Market, frequent restaurants and bars, etc. I can assure from experience that downtown isn’t unsafe. There are a few rougher spots which are easy to avoid and I will echo what others have said that things tend to get chaotic on Friday and Saturday nights around 1st Ave/Hennepin at bar close. If you don’t want to be surrounded by a crowd of drunk people, then avoid this area.
No. According to Minneapolis Crime Data from Neighborhood Scout, Minneapolis is safer than 3% of all American cities. That means that out of every one-hundred cities three more are more dangerous than Minneapolis and all the rest are safer.
This is a huge increase. And is the fifth straight year violent crime has continued to increase in Minneapolis.
Instead of just refuting with your opinion how about presenting some credible statistics?
OK, so let's present some credible statistics from the FBI website and summarized in Wikipedia.
But hey, let's just do the available numbers...And lets "rank" cities based on the self-reported data.
Per 100,000 people:
Minneapolis ranks 43rd in Murder and Non-Negligent Manslaughter. Des Moines ranks 31st, just to give you an idea. Anyone here crowing about how "dangerous" Des Moines is? Hmmm, thought not. Hell, Minneapolis' rate is lower than effin Toledo, Ohio. And it' even safer than Ft. Wayne.
Minneapolis ranks 25th in Aggravated Assaults. Who's #1? Detroit. Who's #2? Memphis. Who's #3? St. Louis. You are twice as likely to be a victim of assault in Milwaukee than in Minneapolis.
And you are more likely a victim of motor vehicle theft in St. Paul than in Minneapolis.
And on, and on. Geez, people, get a grip!. Stop the self-hate. Minneapolis and St. Paul are terrific cities. If you are Polisphobic, then maybe you should move to Helena or Casper.
Last edited by Astron1000; 10-15-2019 at 10:35 PM..
But hey, let's just do the available numbers...And lets "rank" cities based on the self-reported data.
Per 100,000 people:
Minneapolis ranks 43rd in Murder and Non-Negligent Manslaughter. Des Moines ranks 31st, just to give you an idea. Anyone here crowing about how "dangerous" Des Moines is? Hmmm, thought not. Hell, Minneapolis' rate is lower than effin Toledo, Ohio. And it' even safer than Ft. Wayne.
Minneapolis ranks 25th in Aggravated Assaults. Who's #1? Detroit. Who's #2? Memphis. Who's #3? St. Louis. You are twice as likely to be a victim of assault in Milwaukee than in Minneapolis.
And you are more likely a victim of motor vehicle theft in St. Paul than in Minneapolis.
And on, and on. Geez, people, get a grip!. Stop the self-hate. Minneapolis and St. Paul are terrific cities. If you are Polisphobic, then maybe you should move to Helena or Casper.
Homicides, sexual assault/rape and assault are frequently committed by people known to the victim. As a result they are not always good indicators of the general safety of a city.
Robbery (not to be confused with burglary or theft) almost always takes place among strangers and is defined pretty much the same way everywhere.
You are more likely to be the victim of a robbery in Minneapolis than in Atlanta, Boston, Chicago, Dallas, Denver, DETROIT?! Houston, Kansas City, Las Vegas, New Orleans, New York, Miami, Los Angeles, San Francisco, Des Moines, Omaha, Philadelphia, Washington DC and many many more.
The robbery rate is two to three times higher in Minneapolis than some of those cities.
Those are documented facts. While I can't find specific data to verify this, I bet a larger share of those robberies happen in downtown Minneapolis than in the downtown area of most or all of those cities.
As a former NYC resident and a relatively recent Minneapolis transplant who works (not lives) in Downtown West, I would say there's no doubt to me that Downtown Minneapolis comes off as considerably sketchier. However, I think the actual amount of crime is only a part of why that is.
As is no doubt common knowledge to longtime residents, Downtown Minneapolis has far less foot traffic and a general presence of people than many other downtowns, especially NYC. This is especially true on weekday evenings and weekend days. In NYC, for every bad guy on the street are tens if not hundreds of good people who provide a deterrent to committing a crime in public, and this is both day and night (it is the city that never sleeps, after all). I lived there for over 20 years and I virtually never felt unsafe walking anywhere at night alone, and the continual presence of people is a big part of why that was. In Downtown Minneapolis, unless there is a specific large event going on, the streets are often almost entirely empty. I have on plenty of occasions found myself as seemingly the only non-homeless person or drug addict on the block. Yes, many of those people are not inherently dangerous, but it is off-putting nonetheless.
I'm no expert in socioeconomics, but the impression I get as to why Downtown Minneapolis is such a ghost town much of the time is because it is seen as a either a place to work or a place for nightlife, but not for living. With such safe and accessible suburbs not far from Downtown, I can hardly blame people for choosing the quieter areas, but that does leave Downtown in a bit of a position to rot since many of the people left over are the ones who depend on a dense urban environment to get by, such as the homeless and drug addicts. I do believe increasing police presence and giving them more teeth to fight crime will help, but ultimately I think the only way to truly clean up Downtown is to make it a place people want to live. Given the sentiments of most of my coworkers, however, that probably isn't going to happen anytime soon.
Um, well there's Downtown Baltimore for one thing. Flash mobs of 50 teenagers running around beating up unsuspecting innocent white people trying to enjoy the Inner Harbor.
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