Do not defund police/ add more police (Minneapolis: crime rate, transfer)

[atler8]

Originally Posted by BBMW

Minneapolis did not have enough police personnel to deal with the riots as they brewed up, so, really, they do need more officers. What needs to be disbanded is the city council.

How about instead doing major reform of the MPD, which was long known to have the wrong culture in place from the head of the department on down to the rank and file members. In so doing by reforming and cleaning up the PD, you basically end the rinse and repeat cycle that Minneapolis has seen of deaths at the hands of the police.

In so doing, by eliminating the unjustified murder of people like George Floyd one can largely eliminate the rage on the street that brought about the riots in the first place.
Simple logic tells us so...

[PrincessoftheCape]

Originally Posted by atler8

the MPD, which was long known to have the wrong culture in place from the head of the department on down to the rank and file members.

Arrests criminals.

"Wrong culture."

Floyd was committing a crime when he was arrested. He was murdered in the process of the arrest, but the police weren't called because the man was minding his own business.

eliminating the unjustified murder of people like George Floyd

So when people are instead murdered en masse by their neighbors - who are forced to defend their own homes because there is no official defense - that's preferable?

You act like everyone is a saint, and the system is what's causing them to act badly. I counter that the slice of humanity we're talking about has always been there; always been evil, and that removing any immediate consequences will only encourage them further.

Basically: you are a delusional human being because you lack even a cursory understanding of human nature. Don't worry, though - your time for playing these games is fast running out.

[atler8]

Originally Posted by PrincessoftheCape

Arrests criminals.

"Wrong culture."

Floyd was committing a crime when he was arrested. He was murdered in the process of the arrest, but the police weren't called because the man was minding his own business.



So when people are instead murdered en masse by their neighbors - who are forced to defend their own homes because there is no official defense - that's preferable?

You act like everyone is a saint, and the system is what's causing them to act badly. I counter that the slice of humanity we're talking about has always been there; always been evil, and that removing any immediate consequences will only encourage them further.

Basically: you are a delusional human being because you lack even a cursory understanding of human nature. Don't worry, though - your time for playing these games is fast running out.

It's time to drop the straw man argument logic, i.e. "...so when people are murdered...." yada yada yada...... It doesn't do favor to any cause...


You also did not understand what I wrote, much less obviously did not read my link or look for ANY OTHER explanation that is found all over the internet that does explain what the demand for reform of police departments is all about, notwithstanding the unfortunate moniker "defund" that has somehow been chosen (by who?) for the movement.
It's your choice to not look and try to honestly figure out what the demand for reform is really about & for that, I cannot help you but rather instead feel pity.

[PrincessoftheCape]

Originally Posted by atler8

It's time to drop the straw man argument logic, i.e. "...so when people are murdered...." yada yada yada...... It doesn't do favor to any cause...

https://www.nydailynews.com/news/wor...icle-1.1104802
https://www.nydailynews.com/news/7-d...icle-1.1090509
https://www.nydailynews.com/news/wor...icle-1.1075652

^ The future you're advocating for, clear as day. There are no placid vacuums within human social hierarchies - when power is absent from one corner, it is filled by another.

You also did not understand what I wrote, much less obviously did not read my link or look for ANY OTHER explanation that is found all over the internet that does explain what the demand for reform of police departments is all about, notwithstanding the unfortunate moniker "defund" that has somehow been chosen (by who?) for the movement.

I don't care what your explanations are - they are incorrect. There is no debate to be had; there is no middle ground to be found. You're wrong, those who you count as allies are wrong, and I will not give you even the slightest credit for your positions. By aligning yourself with animals, you shall be treated like an animal.

I cannot help you but rather instead feel pity.

I, on the other hand, feel no pity about how this is going to end for you and your ilk.

[atler8]

The all or nothing, "...no middle ground..." attitude as shown above is part of our societal problem.

It's a toxic brew that one must have swallowed whole & then completely digested that says that anyone who thinks that we need police department reform in this country (and specifically in Minneapolis) and then advocates for such reform of a broken system is aligning themselves with criminals. One does not beget the other.

And this line directed at me personally is just plain out shocking to behold posted on a public forum: "... that you shall be treated like an animal."

What's next for me in your eyes? Execution?

[AJNEOA]

Originally Posted by atler8

You know full well by this point in time via the discussion both here & nationally that "Defund the police" does not literally mean the complete abolition of protective law enforcement. So why did you post what you did just now? Does your comment honestly get to the heart of what is being discussed and proposed?

In terms of Minneapolis specifically & it's police department, well before George Floyd was publicly killed by the police on a city street, there had long been a recognition that it's police department was a mess and had in place a culture that was inappropriate.
Review below the well-known case below of the failures of that department that resulted in the death of a woman who did call the police.
Just when is enough really enough? How cheap is life such that this can be allowed to continue without reform?

https://abcnews.go.com/US/minneapoli...ry?id=63547748m?

I have issues with the movement and the fact that some bigger picture issues are not being discussed. However, I don't know why people refuse to read and acknowledge what you are explaining with the "defund" term and what it really means. This is something that is going to be problematic nationwide and someone should do something about the term. "Reform and Rebuild" would be better. or something like it.

[Glenfield]

Originally Posted by atler8

You know full well by this point in time via the discussion both here & nationally that "Defund the police" does not literally mean the complete abolition of protective law enforcement. So why did you post what you did just now? Does your comment honestly get to the heart of what is being discussed and proposed?

Minneapolis City Council President Lisa Bender says you’re wrong.

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news...dent-seeks-po/

[tijlover]

When I was going to have a house built in the south Tijuana hills, I asked my RE agent, given the lack of police in Mexico, what could be done to protect my house, since I'd only be there part time. He told me that every neighborhood has a President who goes around collecting money from residents, and money used as reward money for burglars spotted in the neighborhood, along with Wanted signs on the telephone poles. And when one of these burglars were found, I have no idea what they'd do to him! It's called Vigilantism!

[WoodburyWoody]

Originally Posted by PrincessoftheCape

It is working. It's just not working in a way that thugs and antifa like. And yes, if you support them, you are a thug/antifa.

No, it is not. I live in the Twin Cities. I work in Minneapolis. The MPD has been broken for decades, perhaps generations.

But it is fun to read all of the out-of-staters chime in here.

[BBMW]

In theory, I'd be fine with that (the devil being in the details.) Given Minneapolis's liberal reputation (and near as I can tell, reality), I was more than a little shocked something the the Floyd murder happened there. I'd have to ask how such a liberal city allowed the culture you're decrying to develop in the first place?

But there's a reality to policing that has to be recognized. If they're doing their job correctly, cops routinely deal with, being blunt, the scum of the earth. These criminal are not going to politely cooperate with cops trying to do their job, which often involved making the criminal element do things they don't want do (like go to jail.) Dealing with this will often create violently messy situations, which don't fit our preconceived notions of how civilized society should operate. If we want the ability to enforce laws, this has to be accepted.

Originally Posted by atler8

How about instead doing major reform of the MPD, which was long known to have the wrong culture in place from the head of the department on down to the rank and file members. In so doing by reforming and cleaning up the PD, you basically end the rinse and repeat cycle that Minneapolis has seen of deaths at the hands of the police.

In so doing, by eliminating the unjustified murder of people like George Floyd one can largely eliminate the rage on the street that brought about the riots in the first place.
Simple logic tells us so...