Do not defund police/ add more police (Minneapolis, Jeffers: attorney, homes)

[Teak]

Originally Posted by Glenfield

Minneapolis City Council President Lisa Bender says you’re wrong.

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news...dent-seeks-po/

Exactly. I saw on another post that someone was trying to claim that Jeremiah Ellison really didn't mean to get rid of the police when that is exactly what he and the other 8 stated in the Sunday rally.

I love how the libbies spew emotional outrage and then pretend they didn't mean what they said.

Their plan, so far, is to have the fire department handle certain issues, like arson and maybe car accidents. Social workers would respond to the scene of domestic violence calls and so forth. Not sure who would handle gang violence, maybe hire some community organizers?

Camden, NJ, removed some funding from their police department by getting rid of the unionized police and hiring non-unionized. They cut salaries in half that way and were able to retain staffing levels at a lower funding level.

Are you Democrats prepared to embrace such an idea: getting rid of a public union?

[Glenfield]

Originally Posted by atler8

How about instead doing major reform of the MPD, which was long known to have the wrong culture in place from the head of the department on down to the rank and file members. In so doing by reforming and cleaning up the PD, you basically end the rinse and repeat cycle that Minneapolis has seen of deaths at the hands of the police.

I agree with this. MPD has been a law unto itself for many years. I don’t know if I believe the mayor and council that the union has been the barrier to appropriate standards, training, and discipline but whatever the barrier has been to us exerting civilian control over the department, it has to be removed.

I feel like this latest move by the city council has been a stunt to absolve themselves of all responsibility for what has happened in the dept. and as citizens, we will regret it if we let the mayor and city council off the hook so easily.

[atler8]

Originally Posted by Glenfield

Minneapolis City Council President Lisa Bender says you’re wrong.

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news...dent-seeks-po/

Did you miss the part in the Washington Times interview you linked where Ms. Bender said that it was an "aspirational" goal? That's key there and if overlooked, the thrust of her position in that interview is not understood &/or misrepresented.
Below find "aspirational" as defined at the online financialrhythm site.

The key there being written as:

"An aspirational goal defies logic in many ways in that you can’t see a specific path to achieving the goal when you set it.
You can’t explain each specific step that will get you to your destination.
You’re not sure when, or if, you will attain the goal or not.
You just know that it is something that is very important to you and you want to find a way to bring it into your life over time."

https://financialrhythm.com/aspirati...s-smart-goals/

[atler8]

Originally Posted by Glenfield

I agree with this. MPD has been a law unto itself for many years. I don’t know if I believe the mayor and council that the union has been the barrier to appropriate standards, training, and discipline but whatever the barrier has been to us exerting civilian control over the department, it has to be removed.

I feel like this latest move by the city council has been a stunt to absolve themselves of all responsibility for what has happened in the dept. and as citizens, we will regret it if we let the mayor and city council off the hook so easily.

That is sensible and I'd encourage you and others to step up to the plate and get involved so as to make your views known & to not let anyone off the hook. And that goes for all elected officials from your local ones on up to those in Congress & in the the White House.
Keep the pressure up for reform lest we have a continuing cycle of riots being triggered by local events that could have been and should have been prevented from happening in the first place!
I've been watching riots similar to this Minneapolis one since I was a teenager in the mid-1960's when they broke out suddenly & with terrible violence. 43 people died alone in the 1967 Detroit riot.
That continual cycle has to stop! The fact that I am now in my 60's and STILL seeing this happen shows that we have failed to get to the root of what is triggering these violent episodes and the social unrest that tragically keeps reoccurring.
Is this a cycle that those of you here who are younger than I am want to sentence our country & your children and grandchildren to experience for the whole of their lives?

[Glenfield]

Originally Posted by atler8

That is sensible and I'd encourage you and others to step up to the plate and get involved so as to make your views known & to not let anyone off the hook. And that goes for all elected officials from your local ones on up to those in Congress & in the the White House.
Keep the pressure up for reform lest we have a continuing cycle of riots being triggered by local events that could have been and should have been prevented from happening in the first place!
I've been watching riots similar to this Minneapolis one since I was a teenager in the mid-1960's when they broke out suddenly & with terrible violence. 43 people died alone in the 1967 Detroit riot.
That continual cycle has to stop! The fact that I am now in my 60's and STILL seeing this happen shows that we have failed to get to the root of what is triggering these violent episodes and the social unrest that tragically keeps reoccurring.
Is this a cycle that those of you here who are younger than I am want to sentence our country & your children and grandchildren to experience for the whole of their lives?

I plan to attend the dialogue meetings. I have written to my CM asking that they give proper notice of any meetings to be held. One of the things that aggravates me is that a quorum of the city council met at Powderhorn but there was no published notice of the meeting. This seems to be in violation of Minnesota’s open meeting laws but the only remedy is to either file suit in district court or pay $200 to the legislature for a non-binding opinion.

Also, I was also a teen living in Detroit in 1967 and remember them well.

[Glenfield]

Originally Posted by atler8

Did you miss the part in the Washington Times interview you linked where Ms. Bender said that it was an "aspirational" goal? That's key there and if overlooked, the thrust of her position in that interview is not understood &/or misrepresented.
Below find "aspirational" as defined at the online financialrhythm site.

The key there being written as:

"An aspirational goal defies logic in many ways in that you can’t see a specific path to achieving the goal when you set it.
You can’t explain each specific step that will get you to your destination.
You’re not sure when, or if, you will attain the goal or not.
You just know that it is something that is very important to you and you want to find a way to bring it into your life over time."

https://financialrhythm.com/aspirati...s-smart-goals/

Yeah, I get that she’s just throwing something out there that she doesn’t think will ever happen, but she is a public official and when she says this is a goal, 90% of the people won’t know that she is not being serious.

The council has created a mess with this defund-doesn’t-mean-defund and a-goal-isn’t-a serious-goal nonsense. It’s time to speak plainly and to understand that words have generally accepted meanings.

[golgi1]

Originally Posted by llowllevellowll

So, replace one extreme for the other extreme?

More police are not the "other extreme" to crime. Crime and police are not equal concepts, on some sort of imagined gamut.

Crime is a problem, and the Police are a solution toward mitigating it so that everyone lives in a safe society. We do not have to live in a balance between crime and police. Crime isn't owed a place in society. We simply raise the mitigating factors until it is gone. That's how civilization works.

What you and others are missing is that the best way to justify lowering Police presence is to lower the crime rate by another means. You haven't done that yet, and therefore increasing Police funding is well more justified than is lowering it.

How would that make sense to a rational person?

See above for the rational view. Your view is irrational.

Are you concerned in any way that your response to reform is a furthering of the future police state that you and your children will contend with?

Beat cops do not equate to a "Police State". I don't commit crime and so I see beat cops as a community amenity, not something to "contend with". Only people prone to crime see beat cops as a challenge.

If you want to combat the tools of an actual police State, then combat things like warrantless wiretapping and other such unconstitutional allowances. Have you done that yet, or are you only worried about being able to smoke weed on the street and violent crime to be less checked?

If we are not seeing the sociopathic, brutalizing police forces in the streets all across the country (and the Democratic mayors like De Blasio and Garcetti that defend them), then we're going to over-correct in the completely wrong direction.

For whatever mistakes the Police make, they keep a vastly greater, more murderous sociopathy in check.

You don't have the tools to do that without the Police, and the criminals are infinitely worse than any bad Police.

The Police are a relatively small force battling these criminal every day. Criminals that commit hundreds of murders per year in our larger cities. around 80 murders in the Twin Cities last year.

If you are going to take the extreme action of disbanding the Police over one murder, then I can't imagine the lightning bolts from heaven that you're going to bring down on the population that is largely responsible for 80 murders.

Be careful what you wish for.

We can all agree that the elimination of crime is the most rational wish.

That way, cops can be minimal and unnamed. But Police are definitely the egg when it comes to the criminal chickens.

[skeddy]

check out the overtime being worked by the MPD.

Complain the police are inadequately trained and the answer to that is cut their budget? lmao..

transfer their budget? want to assign social workers to the traffic division so they can console speeders receiving traffic tickets?

[dizzybint]

Originally Posted by skeddy

check out the overtime being worked by the MPD.

Complain the police are inadequately trained and the answer to that is cut their budget? lmao..

transfer their budget? want to assign social workers to the traffic division so they can console speeders receiving traffic tickets?

Inadequately trained and vetted..didnt one of the officers who sat on Floyd legs have seven convictions before becoming a cop..there is something very wrong here...

[Minntoaz]

Originally Posted by vision33r

These are the people you voted for as representatives, enjoy and have a nice day.

Precisely.