St. Paul, the dead city. Why? (Minneapolis, St. Peter: condo, home, neighborhoods)

[Mistacoolio20]

St. Paul compared to Minneapolis is a dead city. Not very many people go downtown, there is not much night life. The Excel is the only thing keeping that city alive. Even in the great Condo splurge they didn't get any development going.

[Slackajawea]

There are a couple of reasons why downtown St. Paul died. The main reason was the addition of the skyways. Had the skyways been done correctly, the downtown wouldn't have suffered, but business owners removed their storefronts from the ground level and moved them to the skyway level facing inward to the skyway. This made it impossible for shoppers to tell what stores there were downtown to meet their needs because there's no way to tell from the street anymore. Combine this with the cost of parking, and you'll see why downtown lost its appeal as a popular shopping destination and businesses began to go under. Minneapolis also relies heavily on skyways to get around downtown, but the storefronts are there so that potential shoppers can see what they have to choose from. As a result, downtown Minneapolis is a much more successful downtown.

[chilaili]

I think also being the capital city is part of the problem. Basically at 5pm everyone leaves their government or banking office, jumps in their car and goes home to the suburbs. Hardly anyone actually lives in downtown and those that do, don't socialise there. It's a shame as I think St Paul has great potential, being right on the river with the beautiful library and new science museum and a couple of great restaurants, but it just doesn't have the infrastructure to support a decent nightlife.

I also find the skyways quite spooky. You can walk from one end to the other and not see a soul the entire time. That doesn't make me want to hang around.

[K-Luv]

St. Paul has a generally older population, and, pretty much everything entertainment and shopping-wise is in Minneapolis. A lot of people from St. Paul go to downtown Minneapolis to hangout. Look at the 16 bus. It is almost always full when it leaves St. Paul regardless of the time of day, but the return bus is virtually empty until well in the evening. The morning 16 bus towards St. Paul is usually full, but it empties out quick when it reaches the U.

[Minnehahapolitan]

Look at their surroundings too; Mpls.'s downtown is surrounded by dense residential areas (Loring Park, Elliot Park, Whittier, Marcy-Holmes). All those people have downtown as an obvious area to go to for their services. Saint Paul's downtown is only surrounded on the western edge. Other than that, the Lafayette Bridge is flanked by an industrial area. The Capitol grounds killed the area north of the CBD 50 years ago. Also remember, Saint Paul's downtown was in an economic decline beginning in the Depression and continuing until after the war; it has problems that were compounded by suburbanization. Mpls. was much more vibrant a downtown before white flight. Saint Paul also relies more on gimmicks to get people into the city (Xcel, Science Museum). These really don't get people to spend any time in Saint Paul, they drive in and out. Name a large museum, arena (besides Target, I suppose) or other "gimmick" in the CBD of Mpls. The Metrodome is in an industrial area that is onlyu recently infilled. Walker and Mpls. Inst. of Arts are in the city neighborhoods, et. cetera.

[Minnehahapolitan]

One last thought: Saint Paul does not have a focal point like Mpls., what is the main street down there? Something like a Cedar Street mall would really help out.

[talktobrent]

Actually, I think it is mostly a political issue... There's not much in terms of nightlife in the first place, so people are leary of any sort of introduction of such and the negatives it might bring. Police don't want more bars and nightclubs because it's more trouble for them, and then they need more staffing/funding, etc. Some citizens think such "nightlife" might bring unwanted characters and such. I think it's mostly just comfort in the status quo. Where some citizens see opportunity, I think more just look at it as trouble.

[BillyB]

There is stuff going on in St Paul, it's just top secret.

[MNBill]

St. Paul will never be like Minneapolis, and it shouldn't try. Fort Worth will never be like Dallas. St. Petersburg will never be Tampa. Oakland is certainly not like San Francisco. Etcetera.

St. Paul is more provincial, more neighborhood-oriented, more full of families who've been there for generations (at least people I know there).

It only irritates me when an outsider talks about something in St Paul and say it's in Minneapolis. Like the Republican Convention later this year, it's at the Xcel Center in SAINT PAUL, NOT Minneapolis!!!

[K-Luv]

Originally Posted by MNBill

It only irritates me when an outsider talks about something in St Paul and say it's in Minneapolis.

It seems common that people generically refer to the whole area as Minneapolis and I can understand why as Minneapolis has national recognition while St. Paul does not. This is probably because of sports (Gophers, Twins, T-Wolves and Vikings all play in Minneapolis), the fact that Minneapolis is the cultural and business center for a five-state region and the music scene (with very few exceptions).

Look at the MSA for the area--the entire region is commonly referred to as the Greater Minneapolis Region.