Is minneapolis sprawled? (St. Paul, Plymouth, Burnsville: real estate, foreclosed, townhome)

[Slig]

Wow, sounds like somebody took a class in developmental psychology. I would definitely agree with your statement though. I wouldn't be living where I'd be living if I didn't think it was hippity hoppity cool here.

[rcsteiner]

Originally Posted by Slig

Yeah, it's a huge difference. In the city you have a choice between chains and small independantly owned businesses.

We had a nice locally-owned Kraemer's Hardware in Glen Lake, a very good independently owned garage to take our cars, and many other things. Suburbs aren't all cookie-cutter in nature ... just mostly that way.

[rcsteiner]

Originally Posted by Thedosius

Really? Tell me what part of what suburb anywhere approaches the density of small, independent shops, stores and restaurants that you see between Lake and Franklin on Lyndale, or along Grand Avenue?

I don't know what it's like now, but downtown Hopkins had a nice mix of stuff while I was growing up in the late 60's and 70's, and we have some areas here in my little section of suburban Atlanta (the Vinings Jubilee area and the Village Green in Smyrna, and perhaps even One Ivy Walk in southern Smyrna) which are intentionally created to be walkable and also to house smaller independent restaurants and retail stores alongside condos and other types of residential property.

I think you're right in general, but I also think there is some trend to emulate (recreate?) that sort of smalltown (or city) downtown area in suburbia these days.

[Ben Around]

Originally Posted by Astron1000

I've spent significant time in about 12 large metros across the country in my lifetime so far. What strikes me is the sameness of suburbs no matter where they are in the US. What I don't get is, why would you live in, say, Eden Prairie, when you could live in a nearly identical city outside of San Diego and enjoy 72-degree temperatures year-round? Why stay in such an extreme climate if all you do is shop at the mall and eat fast food? I'm not saying every suburbanite does this by any means. But life in US suburbs is surprisingly similar no matter where you go.

So why not go somewhere where the weather isn't out to kill you?

When I moved to the Twin Cities several years ago, one of my colleagues asked me "which suburb" I was going to choose. I asked her why I'd choose a suburb, since Mpls and St Paul are so unique, while their suburbs are replicated in virtually every metro area in the US, from Miami to Seattle!

[Ben Around]

Originally Posted by Clifford63

I doubt you will see the end of this. People tend to love where they live, and for some reason, think everyone else should love it as much as they do. That goes for urban and suburban zealots. Human nature? probably so.

Yes, but some of us have lived in both cities and suburbs, and have a preference based on experience, not on myths.

[Slig]

Originally Posted by Ben Around

Yes, but some of us have lived in both cities and suburbs, and have a preference based on experience, not on myths.

agreed.

[Clifford63]

Originally Posted by Ben Around

Yes, but some of us have lived in both cities and suburbs, and have a preference based on experience, not on myths.

True enough. I lived in SW Minneapolis for 15 years, and loved it. Now in the burbs again and so far so good. I feel like I gave up a few things I'll miss, but I am getting some things I could never have with a 40 foot lot too. Bugs me to no end hearing that the city is nothing but a gang infested ghetto, and the burbs are nothing but tasteless collections of cheap houses with vinly siding and rubber stamped grids of strip malls and big box stores. Both views are rather limited.

[ScranBarre]

After perusing every reply in this thread, I would thoroughly like to thank each and every one of you for making this such an enjoyable read. As someone who has seen firsthand what unchecked urban sprawl can do to ravage a once-thriving city's vitality (Scranton, PA is now only at half of its peak population of 145,000, for example), I don't blame city residents for feeling somewhat threatened by the burgeoning suburbs. Minneapolis and St. Paul, like most every other large U.S. city, are undergoing their own urban renaissances---rebirths that may be jeopardized if the suburbs don't stop trying to "compete" with the city cores for the same new residents.

I've read a variety of selections regarding the topic of urban planning, land usage policies, sprawl, etc., and have written newspaper editorials imploring people in Northeastern Pennsylvania to be very wary of what is likely to be a tumultuous next several generations as more transplants flood in from not-so-distant New Jersey, New York City, and Philadelphia and begin to colonize once pastoral settings. Pennsylvania is actually I believe officially the worst state for urban sprawl in the nation on a per capita basis, as we consume thousands upon thousands of acres of open space annually for new development while our state's population barely grows. All we're doing is spreading a dwindling population further and further away from existing infrastructure, increasing the costs to provide these services to these new residents (new and wider roadways, new police departments, new schools, etc.)

I'm finally starting to expand my horizons a bit, and after a lifetime of wishing to raise my family in Scranton, PA I'm now exploring the possibility of moving to a historic home in a delightful walkable neighborhood in either St. Paul or Minneapolis (although I hear the latter has had a horrid reputation of tearing down historically-significant structures at every juncture). I couldn't for the life of me envision living in a far-flung and haphazard suburban neighborhood centered around the automobile like this...


Mountain Top, Pennsylvania


Dallas, Pennsylvania

...when suburban neighborhoods like this...



Kingston, Pennsylvania

...with a grid-shaped street network, bus stops, sidewalks, curbs, tree lawns, yards, parks/playgrounds, community businesses, etc. are all present.

Those who reside in neighborhoods like the first two images are obviously ecological gluttons---more concerned with projecting socioeconomic status than they are with minimizing their carbon footprints in order to maximize the quality-of-life for future generations. If GolfGal's neighborhood is similar to the last two images, then I salute her. If her neighborhood looks anything like the cul-de-sac wasteland you see in my first two images from Pennsylvania, then I can see why Twin Cities suburbanites garner so much scorn (and rightfully so).

[What!]

Good post, S.B. And you are right. Those pics like any suburb in the U.S. and they could be in MN even.

[TimtheGuy]

Originally Posted by Minnehahapolitan

I'd rather be holding a downtown condo than a vinyl duplex in New Prague.

First off, I don't think they are building too many/any duplexes in New Prague. Second, why don't you use a little more realistic suburb like Rosemount, Lakeville, Eden Prairie, Plymouth, Maple Grove, White Bear Lake, Woodbury, IGH (sort of circled the metro)? Is New Prague a suburb?? So, YES I would rather be holding a vinyl single family home in the suburbs mentioned than a 50 cents on the dollar condo downtown.