Is minneapolis sprawled? (St. Paul, Bloomington, Plymouth: co-op, houses, neighborhood)

[Minnehahapolitan]

I used New Prague because I know for a fact that there is an entire neighborhood of townhomes that were foreclosed on before they were even occupied. Downtown will always inherently has more value because there are two of them.

[SlyFrog]

"Unique" and "different" are highly overrated.

I don't want unique. I want known entities where I can buy the **** I need and want and get on with life. Not dirty hole in the wall stores that may or may not have what I want, and may or may not charge me twice what I can find it for elsewhere.

I really don't care that I can walk to some local family owned restaurant. It does not bother me in the slightest that where I live might look like some other place.

I have the hardest time understanding why others would care so much about living somewhere that looks "different," but then I've never understood the need to loudly profess and constantly be concerned about individualism in the first place.

My individualism comes from within, not based on what everyone else around me looks like and is doing.

[Thedosius]

Originally Posted by SlyFrog

"Unique" and "different" are highly overrated.

No, they're not.

They're not because they are personal preferences. They may not be important for you, but they are important for many of us.

What you view as important is to go to a place that is identical to any other place across the country and get your goods that are identical to goods you can get anywhere.

That isn't "over-rated" or "under-rated", it's your personal preference, to which you are entitled just as much as I am to mine. If, somehow, where and how I choose to live has some impact on you, I'll be interested in your opinions of my personal preferences.

[SlyFrog]

Originally Posted by Thedosius

No, they're not.

Yes they are.

Because I'm telling you my personal preferences, and they are that they are highly overrated.

What is the point of your post? Of course they are personal preferences. Whenever someone talks about how suburbs look "the same everywhere," that is: (a) a personal viewpoint; and (b) generally is used to imply a personal preference that this is bad.

Do we need to have a post saying, "No they're not. That's your personal preference," every time someone posts that the suburbs look the same?

Do you understand the error in your logic? You're actually saying that I am wrong, because it is a personal preference. When I was expressing a personal preference. Such that by your logic, I can't be wrong.

[Thedosius]

Originally Posted by SlyFrog

Yes they are.

Because I'm telling you my personal preferences, and they are that they are highly overrated.

What is the point of your post? Of course they are personal preferences. Whenever someone talks about how suburbs look "the same everywhere," that is: (a) a personal viewpoint; and (b) generally is used to imply a personal preference that this is bad.

Do we need to have a post saying, "No they're not. That's your personal preference," every time someone posts that the suburbs look the same?

Do you understand the error in your logic? You're actually saying that I am wrong, because it is a personal preference. When I was expressing a personal preference. Such that by your logic, I can't be wrong.

I understand logic, thank you.

A personal preference might be between chocolate and strawberry ice cream. To prefer chocolate is different than saying "strawberry is overrated". The latter is an objective statement, which inherently doesn't recognize the subjectivity of people's preferences. You are using an objective measure for subjective preferences, which is where you are wrong- not in your preference.

For me and others, uniqueness is something that we like in cities. In no way can that preference be "overrated", but it can be a preference you don't share, or share to a lesser degree. There's a big difference.

[SlyFrog]

Originally Posted by Thedosius

I understand logic, thank you.

Originally Posted by Thedosius

In no way can that preference be "overrated", but it can be a preference you don't share, or share to a lesser degree.

No, you don't.

[What!]

SlyFrog, try driving all the way from Prior Lake to Rosemount some time. You'll notice the same franchises and chain stores in Prior Lake, Shakopee, Savage, Burnsville, Apple Valley, Farmington, and Rosemount. Sure, some of those towns have some nice non-chain stores and restaurants, but not many (I like Shakopee and Farmington's family-owned stores though ).

You'll get tired of driving everywhere to eat, and you'll get tired of eating at the same restaurants that serve more or less the same thing. Wendy's, Dairy Queen, Burger King, Arby's, and McDonald's all serve burgers. It gets nauseating to only have those options when I want a quick bite. Sure, if I wanted to go ethnic all I have to do is hop in my car and go to Leann Chin, Taco Bell, or Sbarro's (lol @ ethnic ). But that crap gets old. So do the sit down family restaurants like Chili's, Applebee's, or Old Chicago. I like all those restaurants I mentioned but if you've eaten at one of them you've eaten at all of them.

And yes, it gets tiring driving around all the time. I'm currently in my parent's house in Golden Valley. It's a nice suburb but driving to get places is annoying. When I was in Minneapolis I was doing this weird thing called "walking". I was actually using my feet to walk from the bookstore to William's Peanut Bar to the lake and then over to Cheapo. Wow! If I was in the suburbs I'd have to drive. I couldn't believe I actually got some exercise. It was pretty cool. It was a "unique" experience to know I had this ability, and it felt good to be "different" than anyone else because the city I was in had its own personality, and it wasn't just a copy of some other place that's right next door. Neat!

[SlyFrog]

Originally Posted by What!

SlyFrog, try driving all the way from Prior Lake to Rosemount some time. You'll notice the same franchises and chain stores in Prior Lake, Shakopee, Savage, Burnsville, Apple Valley, Farmington, and Rosemount. Sure, some of those towns have some nice non-chain stores and restaurants, but not many (I like Shakopee and Farmington's family-owned stores though ).

I lived in a third ring suburb and commuted downtown for nine years now, so I know what it is like. Doesn't bother me in the slightest.

Of course, I grew up in a very small town. Basically, within about 30 minutes there, you experienced all the variety you ever would for the next 18 years of your life. Somehow, we still enjoyed ourselves.

So as mentioned, I think overrated and overhyped.

I understand where you are coming from - I can certainly see why it would be enjoyable for some people, but having had all that Chicago, Detroit, and now Minneapolis/St. Paul have had to offer, I don't find the "uniqueness" of any of the cities attractive in the slightest. Give me known quantities where I can easily find what I want at a good price, and I'm perfectly happy.

[Camden Northsider]

Originally Posted by SlyFrog

"Unique" and "different" are highly overrated.

I don't want unique. I want known entities where I can buy the **** I need and want and get on with life. Not dirty hole in the wall stores that may or may not have what I want, and may or may not charge me twice what I can find it for elsewhere.

I really don't care that I can walk to some local family owned restaurant. It does not bother me in the slightest that where I live might look like some other place.

I have the hardest time understanding why others would care so much about living somewhere that looks "different," but then I've never understood the need to loudly profess and constantly be concerned about individualism in the first place.

My individualism comes from within, not based on what everyone else around me looks like and is doing.

I think you make some good points - I think for a lot of people it is about needing to feel unique, hip, smart, cultured, and whatever else - an imagery as superficial as what we city-dwellers often complain the suburbs to be. But usually the folks of this mindset end up moving to the suburbs when they get older and start to feel that the city is too "unsafe" for their children anyways. That's not to say that there aren't some suburbs that I really like and can see the appeal/ draw of a slower pace and smaller setting.

But own distaste for newer tract development traces back to a young age when my family moved from a big old house in a small town that averaged 5-6 houses on a block, to a late 70s/ early 80s built split foyer urban development where literally all of the houses had the same floor plan/ exterior as far as the eye could see. Not only was it jarring to have our neighbors' house stacked right up next to ours, during the first month/ two in the new neighborhood there were numerous instances where we'd get lost in the maze of curved/ culdesac-ed streets and literally not be able to tell which house was actually ours while trying to return home. After several years in this and another split foyer tract development, now as an adult I have vowed that I will never live in a large tract development or a split foyer as long as I live. But I also happen to like the feel and architecture of older homes.

And there are social issues related to suburban life that are often viewed by city dwellers as wasteful and selfish, which however judgmental is ultimately well-intentioned. Like previously stated, suburbanites do tend to average more consumption in land, energy, gas, and building materials/ natural resources. In addition to this, the mass consumerism that generally comes with suburban development can devastate local (often family-owned) small business economies. In its wake comes a slough of low-wage PT non-benefited positions, the loss of community gathering spaces, and the loss of local business support for schools, arts, etc. And as soon as the large multinational chains become less profitable than they could otherwise be in another location deemed as hot real estate, they pull out. How many Wal-Marts have set up shop in rural/ suburban environments and decimated the local business economy only to abruptly leave the town without any local retail/ business services and a large empty warehouse that no one can use or afford to heat?

[kuan]

Sorry suburbs... but there is so much you just cannot get in the suburbs. Yesterday I was biking on Plymouth Ave. near North MPLS and stopped to get some ribs from the street vendor, then I stopped again a couple blocks down to pick up some fresh lemongrass for $1. BTW you know you cannot find a leather bike seat in any bike store in the suburbs?