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All these banks have rewards and mostly the same services. If you do business with them at any signifcant level, you don't need to worry about out of network ATM fees either. Those charges get refunded.
I was about to say "all the more reason to increase taxes on the wealthy" in response to your statement, but then I became curious to see if my home's mortgage qualified as a significant-enough level of business for such a status symbol (and was shocked to see no out-of-network fees on my statement). I guess once you get yourself into six-digit debt with a company they figure you've already paid your dues, but the concept still sits a little wrong with me....
Please do some research. At least read wikipedia about MSP International Airport. There are well cited references there. NW threated to leave and asked the Twin Cities to build a new airport for it, the cities didn't agree but instead agreed to expand Humphery terminal to hold all carriers other than the skyteam. This hasn't been finished yet. Of course NWA is leaving anyways so I don't think the process will continue.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rcsteiner
The Humphrey Terminal only has 10 gates and serves a few airlines like AirTran, Midwest, and Sun Country.
I tend to fly Midwest when I travel to the Twin Cities from Atlanta, and I think using Humphrey gives Midwest a big advantage. Smaller security lines, quieter, and less waiting in general than in the main Lindbergh terminal. Gives me more time to anticipate the warm cookies I'll be served on the plane.
To my knowledge, NW has never threatened to leave the Twin Cities (except perhaps by dying), and it really couldn't do that without something like the DL/NW merger happening first, since NW has most of its operation here including its computer center (MSP Building J), System Operations Center (Building F), and other facilities.
Besides, NW has to deal with the MAC (Metropolitan Airport Commission), not the Twin Cities directly.
I moved from MSP to ATL four years ago, and I'd take MSP any day. Believe me, having the busiest airport in the country or the world (or both by some measures) does not a mature metro area make. The City of Atlanta has so many political, financial, and infrastructure issues compared to the Twin Cities that it's hard to keep track of them all. Thankfully Atlanta is only 10% of the metro populationwise and less than that areawise, and most of the surrounding suburbs are doing a better job of governing themselves...
I remember when banks like Midwest Federal, TCF, Firstbank, and others had a very strong presence in the Twin Cities, and you still see a lot of credit unions and local banks around. Heck, even First Minnetonka is still around.
Most banks tend to be regional, as do many restaurant chains. That the nature of the beast. I see a lot of banks here in Atlanta like BB&T, Suntrust, etc., that are quite large, but which don't have a presence in the upper midwest at all, but the reverse is also true (Wells Fargo has no presence here, and neither does US Bank). BoA does, but most of the people I know tend to dislike them.
The list of restaurant chains in common between Atlanta and the Twin Cities is long, but so is the list of restaurant chains that only exist here or there. The Twin Cities has White Castle, Perkins, Denny's, etc., which never existed (or no longer exist) in Atlanta, while Atlanta has Folks, Waffle House, and Sonny's.
And grocery stores? the Twin Cities has Cub, Byerly's, etc., while the market down here is dominated by Publix and Kroger. The latter used to be in the Twin Cities a long time ago and was driven out. Cub used to be down here and was driven out.
I am saying the Twin Cities should have one of BoA, Citi or Chase, not all of them according to its size. Why do people keep on mis-interpreting my message? I said BoA, didn't I? The tallest building in Atlanta is called BoA, am I right? Why do you pretend not to see this? HSBC if also fine, but I didn't think of it when I wrote the post. These are global banks. BoA, Citi, HSBC can easily be found in London, Tokyo Hong Kong and Shanghai, not US Bank or Wells Fargo. Chase's presence is less but if you consider JP Morgan, lots of places too. If you can find another top 20 metro that doesn't have one of those, then come back and tell me. All I am saying is that if Twin Cities ever wants to become more global or more national, it at least has to meet some requirements. Of course if it thinks it is fine and it doesn't need to grow or attract people, then what I am saying is just a waste. I highly doubt that is the case though, considering building MoA and those advertisements and claims Twin Cities constantly make. Right now Twin Cities is somewhere that can easily be overlooked by merchandize, believe it or not. It gets attention though, when a merchandize decides to close some of its stores. Twin Cities is usually among the list to close them. I have been constantly doing research myself these two years on this matter. What you say is partly correct. All these stuff have their local flavors, but statistics doesn't deceive people. If you add them together, do some counting and comparision, you'll see the difference. I wouldn't say Twin Cities is the market that has the least variety among top 50 metro, but it is definitely among the league of Omaha, Indianapolis, or Columbus, Kansas City and is a little better than Des Monies, and a little worse than St. Louis. It is definitely worse than a place notorious for its bad economy, Detroit. The funny thing is, all the former places (including Des Moines) claim to have a very good economy. They usually rank high in all rankings but I don't see people moving to those places very eagerly. Instead people flood to places like Houston or Phoenix and housing price in California and east coast is still very high. If Twin Cities is so wonderful and perfect, why are people from the coasts still willing to pay the high costs in almost everything? Why don't they just come here where it is a lot less expensive. The economy in Miami is so bad and the median income is so low and everything seems expensive, but why would they stay there? This goes to the original logic of Minnehahapolitan that "if you move there, you must like it." But I would like to use statistics again. Twin Cities is not among the fastest growing cities in US, far from that. But Austin, San Antonio, Phoenix, Houston, Atlanta, Dallas, etc, etc. are. From 2000 to 2007, the growth of Phoenix is 28.52%, and Twin Cities is just 8.09%, a little less than Miami, and Miami is a much larger metro and has a much larger base population. The fact that a person here complains about Phoenix and praises Minneapolis doesn't say much. Statistics shows. If you consider the cost to income ratio, Twin Cities would move up the list very fast. However, when you factor the cost factor out and just compare what the city has, many people wouldn't even look at the place. (Again, I am not saying this place sucks. I am just stating the fact.) It is a place that can easily be overlooked by either merchandize or people. Therefore it has less to offer. That's just the way it is.
BTW, neither Atlanta or Phoenix are among the cities with top variety. Cities in California and the New York City--Boston area are. Altanta and Phoenix are like the big cities in Texas, Houston or Dallas, they are growing up very fast and are willing to take changes. The reason I constantly mention these two cities is because there seems to be more negativities to these two cities and some people seem to think Twin Cities is superior in every way. Now I am showing you that at least in terms of shopping options, Twin Cities is totally not in the same league, just by looking at stores available in Lenox Square or Fashion Square and the Mall of America. This might be important and might be not, but it is the fact and shows part of the living style of the people. Yes, downtown Atlanta sucks, but it has a few very nice suburbs, some concentration of very rich people (I think the fact that those people didn't move to California or Miami or around new york city says something. They can certainly afford the price. Statistics doesn't show that Twin Cities has a very large suburb with very rich people.) Because of the fact these cities are changing fast, they are quickly catching up in terms of market variety with cities like Seattle or DC, in a different way. But, an undeniable fact is that, their markets all provide more options than the Twin Cities which doesn't have a very good setting to start with and doesn't want to change, and constantly uses the excuse " This is not New York or LA. " Well, soon the list can't just consist of New York and LA, it has to add more and more cities, if you want to say it right. If you think it is still just New York and LA because of blabla..., that's fine too. I would say no more
I am very glad that Wells Fargo bought Wachovia, so that I feel we have Wachovia here too. Suntrust and Wachovia are of course large banks, totally comparable to US Bank and Wells Fargo. But you still have BoA. Seattle is the headquarter of WaMu and Wells Fargo has a strong presence, US Bank as well, but they have BoA anyways. San Francisco is now the headquarter of Wells Fargo, but they have both BoA and Citi.
I know the fact that I brought out the banks sounds absurd, but it is just a part to show how the Twin Cities market is like and I thought if I keep talking about stores, people will get lost but everybody has a bank account. You can think of it this way. If some eastern-coaster tells you she uses a Citi card, will you be so confident to act like you've never heard of it or laugh at it? The other way around when you use a Wells Fargo card, it happens very often. The difference shows. They don't disappear just because you ignore it.
Twin Cities lacks variety and options. I would say no more to this topic.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rcsteiner
Hate to burst your bubble, but the Atlanta metro doesn't have any Chase or Citi branches, either.
None.
Welcome to reality. There are areas of the US, some of them actually well-developed and with their own population centers, that do not follow in the footsteps of the east coast. Really.
BoA has a strong presence here in Atlanta, but most banks are Suntrust, Wachovia, or BB&T. Regional banks, just like you find in the Twin Cities.
Last edited by fashionguy; 10-16-2008 at 02:06 AM..
I don't live there, but I did recently visit the area for the first time.
Overall, I really liked it for a big city.
Traffic wasn't horrible, but there was some gridlock due to things like road construction, and the lack of left turn lanes in the older parts of town. Courteous drivers seemed to be the norm, not the exception. There are also more people that actually go the speed limit than I'm used to seeing. A lot of cities are the opposite. Where I live now is about 50/50 in that category, so it was actually quite pleasant driving through the TC's. Maybe there's more law enforcement, maybe it's the culture. Whatever it was, it was nice to see.
Virtually all of the people we encountered were pleasant and helpful. We didn't spend a lot of time there, I realize, but from my experience in other places, people aren't like that very often. Whether or not it's fake, I don't care. It was just refreshing to see. Even some places in the south, with there is supposed to be "hospitality", are absolutely rude and jaded by comparison.
The cities are clean. Someone mentioned in an earlier thread that they're that way because nobody is downtown past a certain time. A lot of places have clean downtowns, ghost town or not. What impressed me about Minneapolis is that we drove around quite a bit, and didn't see the excessive slums that plague other midwestern towns. Not to say that there isn't any slums, but usually they aren't that hard to find. For example, take away the newer, more recently annexed (last 50 years) parts of Kansas City, and you have a town that would be 2/3 slums.
Most of what I've seen in Minnesota so far has been clean and well kept... except for the streets in Duluth. They were clean, I guess, but horribly maintained. There are a few places in the rural areas where a lot of things wind up in the front yard, but that's a universal problem, I think.
A lot of what I saw was hillier than I expected. That, combined with the beautiful fall trees, made for some really nice scenery. The riverfront is also very scenic. I wasn't expecting the bluffs to be so high. Beautiful town, gorgeous setting. I'm quite jealous.
It was nice to see so many people out walking and using the parks for exercise. Where I live now, there's only a couple of places in the city where people actually do that. There's a lot of nice parks here, but only a few get used extensively. The outdoorsy atmosphere was unexpected. As someone who'd rather go for a hike than go to a nightclub, I liked it.
As far as shopping goes, it seemed okay. My wife was able to find some things that are hard to come by in most places. She was happy about that.
As far as clothing goes, I could get my threads from a thrift store for all I care. I also don't care anything about fine dining. Hole-in-the-wall places usually have the best food, anyway.
I realize that the Twin Cities aren't perfect, no place is, but they make a good first impression. I can now see why they score so high when compared to other cities.
I am saying the Twin Cities should have one of BoA, Citi or Chase
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Twin Cities lacks variety and options. I would say no more to this topic.
Sure. I can watch the deer nibble on the berries across the street from my house and I live barely three miles from the city. That trumps having banking choices anyday. You don't even have that choice in Phoenix. Besides I prefer one of the various credit unions available to me anyways.
It was very interesting to read all of the posts since this subject was first brought up. Our family has now been settled in the Twin Cities for almost a year (moved from NY state at Thanksgiving). It has been an interesting time finding our way around and through the cities (thank you GPS!), but for the most part it has been good.
I really don't understand the complaint about the various banks available here. No matter where you move, chances are high that you are going to have to open a new account at a local bank. With our previous move (OH to NY), we thought we lucked out when our same bank was also in the new location. Nope, we still needed to open a local account for easier access to our money.
Lots of new accounts have to be set up -- banks, all utilities. Lots of research into cable companies, phone options, registering your car (now that is confusing and more expensive than we are used to!), getting new drivers licenses, school districts.
I do find the groceries more expensive here (even when we first moved). At the same time, I have enjoyed the variety of grocery stores. We came from an area that had 2 grocery chains and that was it. Our family loves having the option of Trader Joe's and Whole Foods. I wish there were more locations through the Twin Cities, but maybe sometime in the near future.
The traffic has not been that bad. As a comparison to what we experienced in NE Ohio, about the same though maybe a little better here. It is so hard to compare because newer construction areas really slow down the traffic. We are not used to all the detours, and it does make it hard to even use the GPS. I cannot tell you how many times our GPS wanted us to take the 35W bridge when it was no longer there!
Driving in the winter season was a learning experience. We are very used to driving in snow -- and lots of it (actually more than we had here last winter). But the biggest difference I noticed was the lack of completely cleared roads. The snow plows don't seem to scrape the roads clear to the surface (for the most part), and what is left behind becomes like grease. The plows also seem to mostly salt the intersections, not the entire road. It will be interesting to see if we adapt quicker to these changes this winter now that we have lived through one.
We love the sensors on the traffic signals. Great way to move the traffic along outside of "rush hour(s)". We also like the many right turn lanes which allow you the opportunity to keep moving at a traffic signal intersection.
Shopping has not been a problem because we are more of a Sears/JC Penny's family. As long as those kind of typical department stores are available, we are fine. Oh, the comment about 7-Elevens not being in the area made me think "Why do we need those? You can get almost the same stuff at a Walgreens or a Snyders."
We are enjoying the last of the 4 seasons. Though maybe we will grow to dislike fall as we now have to not only rake the leaves, but dispose of them through the garbage pick-up and not through the city's road crew at the curb. Oh well, it just takes planning (to get through fall with just our yard waste can) or purchasing lots of grass/leaf paper bags.
It was very interesting to read all of the posts since this subject was first brought up. Our family has now been settled in the Twin Cities for almost a year (moved from NY state at Thanksgiving). It has been an interesting time finding our way around and through the cities (thank you GPS!), but for the most part it has been good.
I really don't understand the complaint about the various banks available here. No matter where you move, chances are high that you are going to have to open a new account at a local bank. With our previous move (OH to NY), we thought we lucked out when our same bank was also in the new location. Nope, we still needed to open a local account for easier access to our money.
Lots of new accounts have to be set up -- banks, all utilities. Lots of research into cable companies, phone options, registering your car (now that is confusing and more expensive than we are used to!), getting new drivers licenses, school districts.
I do find the groceries more expensive here (even when we first moved). At the same time, I have enjoyed the variety of grocery stores. We came from an area that had 2 grocery chains and that was it. Our family loves having the option of Trader Joe's and Whole Foods. I wish there were more locations through the Twin Cities, but maybe sometime in the near future.
The traffic has not been that bad. As a comparison to what we experienced in NE Ohio, about the same though maybe a little better here. It is so hard to compare because newer construction areas really slow down the traffic. We are not used to all the detours, and it does make it hard to even use the GPS. I cannot tell you how many times our GPS wanted us to take the 35W bridge when it was no longer there!
Driving in the winter season was a learning experience. We are very used to driving in snow -- and lots of it (actually more than we had here last winter). But the biggest difference I noticed was the lack of completely cleared roads. The snow plows don't seem to scrape the roads clear to the surface (for the most part), and what is left behind becomes like grease. The plows also seem to mostly salt the intersections, not the entire road. It will be interesting to see if we adapt quicker to these changes this winter now that we have lived through one.
We love the sensors on the traffic signals. Great way to move the traffic along outside of "rush hour(s)". We also like the many right turn lanes which allow you the opportunity to keep moving at a traffic signal intersection.
Shopping has not been a problem because we are more of a Sears/JC Penny's family. As long as those kind of typical department stores are available, we are fine. Oh, the comment about 7-Elevens not being in the area made me think "Why do we need those? You can get almost the same stuff at a Walgreens or a Snyders."
We are enjoying the last of the 4 seasons. Though maybe we will grow to dislike fall as we now have to not only rake the leaves, but dispose of them through the garbage pick-up and not through the city's road crew at the curb. Oh well, it just takes planning (to get through fall with just our yard waste can) or purchasing lots of grass/leaf paper bags.
Sounds like you have had a smooth transition for the most part. Glad to hear that.
With leaves and yard waste - this varies a lot from city to city. With concern on how we manage yard waste coming to forefront more and more, there are a multitude of proposed solutions. I am a fan of mulching leaves with a mower. Not all mowers do a good job, but I just got a new one recently and it is great. No more hassles with bagging the grass and leaves, draging the bags to the curb, and feeling guilty about it. If you have massive amounts of leaves, you mow with the bagger on, then mixed into the garden or woodchip mulch beds, placed on rose beds to protect from winter kill, and some people have composte piles. It also helps to mow the leaves up as they fall instead of waiting for them all to come down. I don't claim to be a big greenie, but I am trying to reduce waste and recycle as much as makes sense.
Location: Mableton, GA USA (NW Atlanta suburb, 4 miles OTP)
11,334 posts, read 26,086,242 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fashionguy
Please do some research. At least read wikipedia about MSP International Airport. There are well cited references there. NW threated to leave and asked the Twin Cities to build a new airport for it, the cities didn't agree but instead agreed to expand Humphery terminal to hold all carriers other than the skyteam. This hasn't been finished yet. Of course NWA is leaving anyways so I don't think the process will continue.
I worked at NWA in MSP for most of the period between 1988 and 2002, and I don't remember any serious moves by NWA to actually leave the Twin Cities.
If you do, please cite your source(s).
Some noise has been made over the years to relocate the airport to a larger location outside of the existing metro location (since the current airport *is* somewhat space limited), but that's quite a different thing. Such an airport would have still served the Twin Cities and acted as a major hub for the airline.
FWIW, NW isn't leaving -- it will be disappearing just as Republic did 20+ years ago.
Last edited by rcsteiner; 10-16-2008 at 11:35 AM..
[quote=rcsteiner;5718032]
Some noise has been made over the years to relocate the airport to a larger location outside of the existing metro location (since the current airport *is* somewhat space limited), but that's quite a different thing. Such an airport would have still served the Twin Cities and acted as a major hub for the airline.
QUOTE]
Just a note that the noise over SW Minneapolis from the flights in and out of MSP is pretty intense at times. Relocating the airport farther from the city might alleviate this problem. Several times this summer I was visiting Lake Harriett and trying to listen to an outdoor concert at the Bandshell on the weekend when planes flying overhead drowned out the music literally every 10 minutes for a couple hours. There are times when the airplane noise makes it impossible to carry on a conversation in Linden Hills neighborhoods or SW Minneapolis, depending on where your house is located and the time of day. That said, if you are relocating to the Twin cities, take this into account when choosing a neighborhood.
Another early observation of the TC is the amount of run down housing and poor neighborhoods in south central Minneapolis. I lived here in the 70's for grad school, and while the areas around Franklin, Portland and Lake were run down at that time, things have greatly deteriorated in these areas since the 70's. I often drive on Portland from downtown, south to 36th street, and am amazed at how poor the neighborhoods are in this area. Some condo development is taking place around 9th and 10th streets and Portland, but walking around these neighborhoods would be potentially dangerous, in my opinion. I'm not sure how one could live there and feel safe. There is a fair amount of crime here. Just this last Sunday, I read in the newspaper that two 30 year-old women were assaulted, robbed, beaten up and raped by intruders invading their home in Eden Prairie, a seemingly safe suburb. This can happen anywhere, but it does shake up one's personal sense of security.
I agree with the earlier posters about all the downtown condos being developed and few services. There aren't many (if any) grocery stores, drug stores, etc., in the downtown area, making it a necessity to drive out of downtown for these kinds of necessities. Prices seem high for the downtown condos I've seen. There is a wide range of housing available in the TC, but lower priced apartments (under $700) seem to primarily be in poorer neighborhoods , or adjacent to them. The rents quickly escalate in the suburbs.
Jobs are fairly plentiful, but I suspect it's going to get a lot worse given the economic meltdown. I do see "Hiring" signs around the city, but mostly in retail.
You think things have gotten worse for Phillips since the 70s? The area has been run down since the Depression, but in the 70s, 80s and 90s it was the worst it ever was. Lake and Chicago is nothing short of a miracle, and there is even new development on Franklin. It is still one of the worst areas of the city. It has improved tremendously, though, especially in the last few years.
The Airport will never be moved (maybe a second one will be built, but even that is improbable.) The new runway puts alot more planes over Eagan, though. The river gives them more of a buffer than flying them over the adjacent areas that are heavily populated.
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Thankfully Atlanta is only 10% of the metro populationwise and less than that areawise, and most of the surrounding suburbs are doing a better job of governing themselves...
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