Is there a Ghetto of St. Paul, if so which side, North, South etc. (Minneapolis: foreclosed, crime rate)

[Camden Northsider]

srsmn- i've enjoyed the new perspective you've brought to the forum here, and am (or am trying to get) behind you on some of it, but I think you're incorrect and contradicting yourself when you say "Certainly not all suburbs are safer, from a perspective of crime rate per 100,000" in one post and then a few posts later say "if you think that there's anywhere in the suburbs that is less safe-- crime wise-- than anywhere in Minneapolis, well....you're pretty much kidding yourself."

I think the converse is true in both statements- crime rate per 100,000 is most likely always going to be lower in the suburbs than the city because 100,000 people are going to cover a large swath of geographic area. However, in relation to your second comment (specific to areas)- I can think of a number of suburban neighborhoods that are less safe than a number of neighborhood areas in the city of Minneapolis. I kind of hate to say this, but I'm 99% positive I could find stats to back up that there are areas of B.C. that are less safe than a number of Mpls neighborhood areas, including my own neighborhood area somewhat adjacent to it in north mpls.

Similarly, you seem to suggest that ALL Mpls neighborhood areas are going to be higher crime than anywhere suburb merely by the virtue of being in close proximity to some of the neighborhoods exhibiting the highest crime rates. Again, there are many examples where this is not the case- for instance, both Harrison and Willard-Hay neighborhoods (which are on the higher end for Mpls n'hood crime) border two neighborhoods known for their prestige and very low crime rates- Bryn Mawr (Mpls) and Golden Valley's $1M+ average/home Hidden Lakes development...granted, Hidden Lakes is either explicitly or implicitly a gated community (I'm not sure if the gates actually close or fencing encircles the whole development), but nonetheless the point remains. Similarly, if you take a close look at North Mpls crime rates (an area you earlier implicated), you'll find areas in both the upper and lower tiers of Mpls crime rates, some of which actually border and/or are adjacent to each other. Even within individual neighborhood areas (on the micro level) throughout Mpls, you will commonly hear people say that an area is great if it's past a certain set of coordinates w/in that n'hood, and not so great on the other side of those coordinates- Willard-Hay is again an example of this with, you guessed it, the areas closer to the parkway/ Golden Valley being considered pretty nice.

[Arcadian117]

For people saying there isn't any trashy parts of Minneapolis/Saint Paul, I'm guessing you haven't really lived in them. That being said, the twin cities are alot nicer than alot of other cities such as Detroit, D.C, or Oakland. As long as you stay in the nicer parts of the cities such as Grand Avenue, or Dinky town, then you will be totaly fine. Like someone said earlier, the gang activity in both these cities are (mostly) gang vs gang related. Just be aware, stick to the nicer areas, and you'll be fine .

[Ben Around]

Originally Posted by Arcadian117

For people saying there isn't any trashy parts of Minneapolis/Saint Paul, I'm guessing you haven't really lived in them. That being said, the twin cities are alot nicer than alot of other cities such as Detroit, D.C, or Oakland. As long as you stay in the nicer parts of the cities such as Grand Avenue, or Dinky town, then you will be totaly fine. Like someone said earlier, the gang activity in both these cities are (mostly) gang vs gang related. Just be aware, stick to the nicer areas, and you'll be fine .

Certainly the same could be said about DC and Oakland, and maybe even Detroit (not as familiar with that city).

[audadvnc]

Originally Posted by Ben Around

Certainly the same could be said about DC and Oakland, and maybe even Detroit (not as familiar with that city).

The difference of course is that there are sections of DC, Oakland and Detroit that are seriously dangerous to be in. Minneapolis doesn't have neighborhoods like that.

You are much more likely to have been run over by a tornado in the Twin Cities than to have found yourself on the wrong end of a stranger's knife or gun. Wanna protect yourself? Get into the basement.

[Clifford63]

Originally Posted by audadvnc

The difference of course is that there are sections of DC, Oakland and Detroit that are seriously dangerous to be in. Minneapolis doesn't have neighborhoods like that.

You are much more likely to have been run over by a tornado in the Twin Cities than to have found yourself on the wrong end of a stranger's knife or gun. Wanna protect yourself? Get into the basement.

I think there are some fairly clear patterns that can be observed if you look at shot spotter data. They don't put that stuff in place unless there are some safety issues and concerns. As a whole, the metro feels pretty safe to me, but it seems a bit unrealistic to suggest that there are no problem areas.

[ManBearPig1]

Originally Posted by Clifford63

I think there are some fairly clear patterns that can be observed if you look at shot spotter data. They don't put that stuff in place unless there are some safety issues and concerns. As a whole, the metro feels pretty safe to me, but it seems a bit unrealistic to suggest that there are no problem areas.

Right, but the point is that the "problem areas" are not anywhere near as bad as the worst areas of those other metros. The point is that the bottom 0 percentile area in Minneapolis crime-wise would only be somewhere around the bottom 25 percentile crime-wise in say Detroit (not sure the actual numbers, just trying to illustrate the point).

[Clifford63]

Originally Posted by ManBearPig1

Right, but the point is that the "problem areas" are not anywhere near as bad as the worst areas of those other metros. The point is that the bottom 0 percentile area in Minneapolis crime-wise would only be somewhere around the bottom 25 percentile crime-wise in say Detroit (not sure the actual numbers, just trying to illustrate the point).

I would tend to agree with that general picture but it does take only one bullet to kill you. Makes me sick to hear about kids taking stray bullets and that has happened a couple times recently.

What scares me personally is the increase in random shooting sprees. Easy enough to avoid certain areas, but who know when a disgruntled co-worker will try to shoot up the office.

[MediaDoggie]

Originally Posted by Arcadian117

For people saying there isn't any trashy parts of Minneapolis/Saint Paul, I'm guessing you haven't really lived in them. That being said, the twin cities are alot nicer than alot of other cities such as Detroit, D.C, or Oakland. As long as you stay in the nicer parts of the cities such as Grand Avenue, or Dinky town, then you will be totaly fine. Like someone said earlier, the gang activity in both these cities are (mostly) gang vs gang related. Just be aware, stick to the nicer areas, and you'll be fine .

Dinkytown and S.E Mpls (South and East of Mississippi, not the S.E quadrant as you look at a map) is old and considered safe. There has been a huge increase in armed robberies in the last few years, especially in 2011. These were mostly late at night and to college age students. The thugs are looking for electronics as students don't carry much cash. There have been some disturbing daytime robberies which officials tend to downplay. The students have often reported the suspects have "East African accents", which produced sharp criticism in the University newspaper and accused the victims of being racist. So now descriptions and accents reporting are limited in the media. How do solve crime if we are afraid of offending?

[audadvnc]

Originally Posted by Clifford63

I would tend to agree with that general picture but it does take only one bullet to kill you. Makes me sick to hear about kids taking stray bullets and that has happened a couple times recently.

Violence comes in all forms, and can occur anywhere.

That story of the child that died in his kitchen on the 2600 block of Colfax was really sad. But it was a freak accident - the idiot that fired the gun that killed the child probably had no idea where the bullet went.

OTOH my daughter's friend at Benilde is a classmate of the boy that had his back broken playing hockey the other day.Is anybody asking for hockey to be outlawed??

[Clifford63]

Originally Posted by audadvnc

Violence comes in all forms, and can occur anywhere.

That story of the child that died in his kitchen on the 2600 block of Colfax was really sad. But it was a freak accident - the idiot that fired the gun that killed the child probably had no idea where the bullet went.

OTOH my daughter's friend at Benilde is a classmate of the boy that had his back broken playing hockey the other day.Is anybody asking for hockey to be outlawed??

Hockey is a sport, participation is optional, and there are known risks. That said, many thousands of kids participate, so therefore serious injuries are going to happen. Sadly, some of them are serious. Rule changes are in the works, and hopefully that helps reduce injuries.

Same logic can be applied to gunshots. A single random gunshot could kill somebody, but it would be unlikely. If there are thousands of gunshots, it becomes a likely outcome where somebody is hit or killed. Yes there is work being done to address this, but there are some locations where this is a serious problem. I personally am not going to dismiss a child dying as a "freak accident".

Both situations are tragic, but I personally have a hard time calling either event a freak accident. Call me crazy, but I can accept participation in Hockey as valid choice people might make, but I can't say the same thing regarding firing weapons illegally.