What is the appeal of Minneapolis/St. Paul? (to live, vs.)

[Ben Around]

Originally Posted by K-Luv

Also, I should point out that I am talking solely about Minneapolis, not the TC metro, and definitely not St. Paul.

Whattya mean, definitly not St Paul? Have you ever been here? I live in St Paul. I'm originally from NY, my wife from IA, the guy across the street IL, the couple next to them from CT and PA, the family kitty corner from us Vietnam, the woman behind us from WI, the guy next door from IA and his wife from MT, the family next to them from WI, farther down the block, guy from Cleveland, wife from Chicago, etc., etc. Witin a one block radius we have neighbors from Israel, Swtzerland, Germany and Finland. (Can you tell I am a regular at our annual neighborhood party? )

[Ben Around]

Originally Posted by rcsteiner

There are a bunch of Caribou Coffee places in Atlanta. FWIW...

Yeah, we were traveling thru Atlanta last year yearning for a cup of coffee and did a web search from our location (northbound on I-75) for the closest coffee shop. The search directed us to a Caribou in Kennesaw, I believe it was.

[lxvt]

Originally Posted by K-Luv

While the education around the TC is the best in the nation, I do not believe that many non-college students are moving to the area simply because of the education. I mean how many parents move half-way across the country just to be able to send their children to the best public school?

I can say that we are moving from the east coast to Mpls as soon as we sell our house in Vermont for many reasons but the biggest reason would be the quality of the public education system. I think after working in NY and VT schools that it far exceeds in quality.

[Sir Punk]

it is a great place like everybody mentioned. But if you are not a native, the winter really wears you down.

[cdubs3201]

Originally Posted by K-Luv

First off I have to say that if you believe that Minneapolis does not have a huge out-of-state population than you are not paying attention.

I think that ultimately it has to do with the economy of the Twin Cities, which has always been strong. It's also fairly safe for it's size. While the education around the TC is the best in the nation, I do not believe that many non-college students are moving to the area simply because of the education. I mean how many parents move half-way across the country just to be able to send their children to the best public school?

No, the OP is correct, there is NOT a huge out of state population in Minnesota. An example of a huge out of state population is Chicago. There's hardly anyone here between 23-35 in the city who are actually from Chicago, let alone Illinois.

[cdubs3201]

There's a lot of good reasons to live and/or move to Minneapolis. I'm just going to play devil's advocate here:

Reasons why people DON'T live in Minneapolis or MN:

1. Winters are brutal
2. Summers are very very humid
3. Mosquitos ruin the summer evenings
4. Very weak public transportation
5. Poorly planned and implemented roadway infrastructure
6. There is comparable crime, gangs (Murderapolis)
7. Hard to make friends as a transplant, not impossible, but hard
8. Passive Aggressive people (vs. tell you to your face people)
9. High Taxes, had over a $2 billion state surplus just a couple years ago, often have surplus
10. Majority population tends to be far left liberal as compared to the rest of the country


This aren't reasons to deter, and they may not be bad reasons at all (especially if you ARE liberal), just thought I'd throw out reasons why many people would not want to live in Minneapolis/MN...

[rcsteiner]

Originally Posted by cdubs3201

There's a lot of good reasons to live and/or move to Minneapolis. I'm just going to play devil's advocate here:

I'll make some (hopefully constructive) comments as a Twin Cities native who has been in Atlanta for the last 4.5 years.

Reasons why people DON'T live in Minneapolis or MN:

1. Winters are brutal

This is a factor for many people. I personally think that the myth of Minnesota winters is far worse than the reality, but the fact remains that living in Minnesota during the wintertime does require some lifestyle adjustments.

2. Summers are very very humid

I used to think that, but Georgia summers aren't that different on any given day from those in the Twin Cites, just a couple months longer on either end.

3. Mosquitos ruin the summer evenings

They can. There are very few skeeters here in GA compared to what we had even in the Twin Cities, I'm sure because there isn't that much standing water in the Atlanta metro. At least MN doesn't have Palmetto bugs, fire ants, poison spiders, or the little inch-long sand scorpions we've been seeing around our garage door here in Georgia.

4. Very weak public transportation

I think this is true of most cities in the US. Atlanta has its MARTA, but it doesn't extend to the suburbs so it might as well not exist as far as 90% of the population here is concerned.

5. Poorly planned and implemented roadway infrastructure

This I need to strongly disagree with. The Twin Cities metro is Planned Road Heaven compared to the Atlanta metro. Roads in the Twin Cities have paved shoulders, there are many dedicated bike trails, stoplights are intelligent and can be overridden by emergency vehicles, there are usually multiple roads running in parallel to provide alternate routes to places, etc. That simply isn't true down here on the Atlanta metro (for the most part).

6. There is comparable crime, gangs (Murderapolis)

Minneapolis has what, four murders this year? Five? That's incredibly low for Minneapolis, I realize, but the normal numbers for the Twin Cities are quite low for the most part compared to many (most?) other cities of similar size.

7. Hard to make friends as a transplant, not impossible, but hard

I've heard this. Not being a transplant, I don't know.

8. Passive Aggressive people (vs. tell you to your face people)

Piffle. You obviously don't know the folks I ran around with in the SW suburbs. Most of us were/are Minnetonka, Edina, or Bloomington natives with a few from other adjacent burbs thrown in.

9. High Taxes, had over a $2 billion state surplus just a couple years ago, often have surplus

I've not noticed much difference here in terms of sales, income, or properly taces, but the services I can obtain down here are much less in some instances. Low taxes are not a panacea ... be careful what you wish for.

10. Majority population tends to be far left liberal as compared to the rest of the country

The Twin Cities does have a progressive liberal streak as well as a long history of being that way, but it's far less granola (extreme) than some states, e.g., California.

Given my experience now in a largely conservative state (Georgia), I'll take Minnesota in a heartbeat.

This aren't reasons to deter, and they may not be bad reasons at all (especially if you ARE liberal), just thought I'd throw out reasons why many people would not want to live in Minneapolis/MN...

Yup, and I think all of them can be a factor for some people. I don't personally understand why in a few instances, but I can see that they could be.

[Ben Around]

Originally Posted by cdubs3201

No, the OP is correct, there is NOT a huge out of state population in Minnesota. An example of a huge out of state population is Chicago. There's hardly anyone here between 23-35 in the city who are actually from Chicago, let alone Illinois.

What is your source?

[fashionguy]

While you are eager to defend the Twin Cities, I think you have to be fair to other cities too. What do you mean by "MARTA might as well not exist"? It has the nation's 7th most ridership in rapid transit, with a daily ridership of 269,700 (this number is larger than any light rail system in the nation), and 5666 ridership per mile, compared to a daily ridership of 30,200, and 2525 ridership per mile of the Minneapolis light rail. MARTA is a comprehensive rapid transist system, has 4 lines and covers most of the Atlanta area, including downtown, airport, the Buckhead area(an uptown area with shopping malls like Lenox square and condos), etc. Even if after Minneapolis has completed the central corridor connecting St. Paul, and the southwest corridor connecting uptown, its light rail system would still be only as good as MARTA at best. Your saying MARTA is no better than the one-line Minneapolis light rail is like saying all these plans are for nothing. While you are not very keen on Atlanta, I think sometimes it is good to spend sometime to look at the statistics. You'll find yourself surprised. Just because MARTA doesn't cover the suburb you live in doesn't mean it has no reason to exist. There is something called data that you can look up to. I can't believe how far people can go without looking at the statistics. You just igore most aspects that seem better than the Twin Cities and find excuses for others.

List of United States rapid transit systems by ridership - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

List of United States light rail systems by ridership - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

list of rapid transit systems in US by ridership:

Rank System Largest city served Daily ridership
1 New York City Subway New York City 7,880,000
2 WMATA Metrorail Washington, D.C. 944,400
3 Chicago 'L' Chicago 640,700
4 MBTA (or "T")* Boston 485,800
5 BART* San Francisco 379,400
6 SEPTA Market-Frankford and Broad Street Lines* Philadelphia 318,000
7 MARTA Atlanta 269,700
8 PATH New York City 250,400
9 Los Angeles County Metro Rail Red and Purple Lines * Los Angeles 139,700
10 Metrorail Miami 63,800
11 Baltimore Metro Subway*Baltimore 53,300
12 Tren Urbano San Juan 36,800
13 PATCO Speedline Philadelphia 36,600
14 RTA Rapid Transit Cleveland 18,600
15 Staten Island Railway New York City 15,900
16 Detroit People Mover Detroit 6,300


list of light rail systems in US by ridership

Rank System Largest city served Daily ridership

1 MBTA Green Line Ashmont–Mattapan High Speed Line Boston 229,200
2 Muni Metro* and F/Market Line Muni Cable Cars San Francisco156,900
3 Los Angeles County Metro Rail Blue, Green, and Gold lines Los Angeles 136,400
4 SEPTA Subway-Surface Lines, Suburban Trolley Lines, and Girard Avenue Trolley* Philadelphia 112,600
5 MAX Light Rail Portland Streetcar Portland 107,600
6 San Diego Trolley San Diego 103,900
7 DART: Red and Blue lines MATA streetcar Dallas 69,800
8 Denver RTD, The Ride Light Rail Denver 68,800
9 Sacramento Regional Transit District Light Rail Sacramento 60,500
10 St. Louis MetroLink St. Louis 59,000
11 UTA TRAX Salt Lake City 44,800
12 METRORail Houston 39,300
13 Hudson-Bergen Light Rail Jersey City 38,200
14 Santa Clara VTA Light Rail San Jose 34,400
15 Baltimore Light Rail Baltimore 33,600
16 Hiawatha Line Minneapolis 30,200

Originally Posted by rcsteiner

I'll make some (hopefully constructive) comments as a Twin Cities native who has been in Atlanta for the last 4.5 years.


I think this is true of most cities in the US. Atlanta has its MARTA, but it doesn't extend to the suburbs so it might as well not exist as far as 90% of the population here is concerned.

[Clifford63]

Originally Posted by fashionguy

While you are eager to defend the Twin Cities, I think you have to be fair to other cities too.

This is a fair point, as was the one made by RC. The info you posted was indicating that our light rail was 16th in ridership and we are the 16th largest metro. That seems in order to me and I would say that is more like average instead of poor. We are not nearly as dense or large as NYC, Chicago, Boston, SF so that type of comparision is not exactly appropriate. I believe the point RC was making is that any comment indicating that public transportation in Metro MN is weak, is overstated if you look at other similar sized metro areas. If you look at the numbers for Marta, is the ridership over 10%? Is the ridership greater than Hiawatha line?

Once you get beyond the large and dense metro areas, public transportation is more of a challenge. There are some good systems in smaller metros on the list, and there are large metros like Dallas that did not make the list.

If you look at the Bus and Rail combined, the public transportation in Twin Cities is far from poor as a whole. It serves the core cities quite well, and park and ride for commuting is well used by people working downtown. If they get the core cities connected via rail, and extend to SW corridor this will be a substantial improvement. It is not a great infrastructure, but there is commitment, and investment is happening. Things are moving in the right direction.