From Washington DC to Minneapolis (St. Cloud, Ada: middle-class, rental, crime)

[Camden Northsider]

Originally Posted by Slig

Yeah, I see now I should dumb down my posts so people don't jump all over it. The end result is another hijacked topic, guaranteed the original post is thinking WTF.

Slig- I'm probably the most sensitive to the negative generalizations on here than anyone, and to be honest, although I didn't like your post, I didn't really take much offense to it and have seen you say the exact thing in previous posts and haven't spoken up about it. However, the fact that you laid out a whole quadrant of neighborhoods with geographic boundaries kind of implies a sort of 'coded' talk (like an "I certainly don't think this, but a lot of other people say...." kind of thing).

And I think people fail to realize that their posts often times end up being much more than just a simple discussion between the original poster and us regulars. Everything posted on here basically lives in perpetuity and is read hundreds if not thousands of times by members and non-members alike (ever notice how any google search related to any neighborhood topic will always bring up city data results at the top of the page?). I think the implications of posting negative/ disparaging generalizations about n'hoods could potentially have a far greater reach (and serve to further devastate n'hoods and their efforts at revitalization) than any of us realize. Sorry to further hijack the topic-

[Slig]

I'm completely aware of this. But going back to my original post that spun this conversation out of control, I don't regret anything I wrote. Whether or not you like it, the said area has a reputation that is at least partially deserved. The whole point of this forum is to share information, data and opinions on real estate investments and personal living. I think the said area is a great place to consider for the right person. However, you and I both know that it would be senseless to recommend that area to someone who is looking to spend upwards of $1700/month on an urban living apartment.

Whether or not it created an impression of negativity in some peoples' eyes, the effort to distinguish the said area and the north loop was simply meant to answer the original poster's question. If you want me to follow strict guidelines while sharing this information, please PM me what I can and cannot say without causing a ruckus, I would be happy to comply.

[MRNorthSide]

Originally Posted by Slig

Whether or not it created an impression of negativity in some peoples' eyes

I'm gonna go out on a limb, and say that when you label an entire geographic area as "bad" it creates an impression of negativity. Just my $0.02.

[Slig]

Originally Posted by MRNorthSide

I'm gonna go out on a limb, and say that when you label an entire geographic area as "bad" it creates an impression of negativity. Just my $0.02.

Maybe it would for somebody who doesn't actually read the other posts of a thread. If you had you would easily realize that it was a response to this statement:

How is the Northern part of Mpls? Prices are very low, but I am worried that the areas are not nice.

I shouldn't have to explain this.

[Ghengis]

Think the OP would be interested in this, other crime statistics are included.

www.ci.minneapolis.mn.us/police/crime-statistics/codefor/shotsfired.asp

[Camden Northsider]

Originally Posted by Slig

I'm completely aware of this. But going back to my original post that spun this conversation out of control, I don't regret anything I wrote. Whether or not you like it, the said area has a reputation that is at least partially deserved. The whole point of this forum is to share information, data and opinions on real estate investments and personal living. I think the said area is a great place to consider for the right person. However, you and I both know that it would be senseless to recommend that area to someone who is looking to spend upwards of $1700/month on an urban living apartment.

Whether or not it created an impression of negativity in some peoples' eyes, the effort to distinguish the said area and the north loop was simply meant to answer the original poster's question. If you want me to follow strict guidelines while sharing this information, please PM me what I can and cannot say without causing a ruckus, I would be happy to comply.

OK, I'm going to just go ahead and say I'm sorry for having started this whole tangent. Again, I didn't think your comments were offensive/ abrasive, etc., I just disagreed with them and thought they were a little contradictory in nature. As far as reputations, I'm sure you can relate and empathize with the fact that your own neighborhood surely sometimes gets a partially "undeserved" rep for being part of Powderhorn which I know in the past has compelled you to defend it here on this board.

And I'm probably not the best person to be responding to threads like these as I've personally never understood the whole concept of wanting to spend extra money just to be part of an exclusive area - I think perhaps I've rather naively thought that people relocating here just aren't familiar with our cost of living and were in need of becoming better informed. For instance, I just don't get why Bryn Mawr is considered such a desirable place to live and I'm pretty sure that I would chose my current neighborhood over it if housing values were equivalent - the housing stock is similar, we have very similar crime rates, and we have as much if not more park space, more restaurants/ businesses, and better schools here. If surrounding yourself with a neighborhood full of less-diverse upper-upper-income yuppies and street names that say "south" (or don't have a directional) is worth, on average, hundreds of thousands of dollars more to a person -- then more power to them, but in my mind that's just irrational...so maybe I'm just an odd duck.

[Slig]

Originally Posted by Camden Northsider

If surrounding yourself with a neighborhood full of less-diverse upper-upper-income yuppies and street names that say "south" (or don't have a directional) is worth, on average, hundreds of thousands of dollars more to a person -- then more power to them, but in my mind that's just irrational...so maybe I'm just an odd duck.

I couldn't agree with you more which is why I settled on a very inexpensive home in what is seen to the general public as a "transitional neighborhood," and a title I would deem as appropriate given its current state. I have stated on this forum before that the reason I chose the southside was merely due to geographical convenience. I take classes on the West Bank and work in Eagan and was on a tight budget. The southside is right in between the two and the homes in the neighborhoods there fell into my budget. If I was working in Brooklyn Park (which nearly happened) I would be living in a home on the northside right now, guaranteed. I'd happily move into a livable home for sub 100k.

Not everybody thinks like we do, and when it comes down to it we can either decide to push our ideals on every poster or attempt to steer them to what they are actually looking for. I've realized that my neighborhood isn't for everybody which is why I'm pretty selective in recommending it. I will defend it when somebody posts inaccurate information, but I'm not going to sugarcoat it either.

[Clifford63]

Originally Posted by Slig

Not everybody thinks like we do, and when it comes down to it we can either decide to push our ideals on every poster or attempt to steer them to what they are actually looking for. I've realized that my neighborhood isn't for everybody which is why I'm pretty selective in recommending it. I will defend it when somebody posts inaccurate information, but I'm not going to sugarcoat it either.

Don't start sugar coating it. I would much rather hear reality and posts that help people find what they are looking for than shameless promotion of political ideals, school districts or whatever it may be.

I got a little miffed at the way you corrected me and sorry if that added to the confusion of the thread. Ironically, my office overlooks north loop. Goes to show you can learn something everyday.

[Camden Northsider]

Originally Posted by Clifford63

Don't start sugar coating it. I would much rather hear reality and posts that help people find what they are looking for than shameless promotion of political ideals, school districts or whatever it may be.

I completely agree, and I always prefer to be frank and straightforward with people - because of this, I feel that perhaps a clarification and/or justification may be needed here in response to this and Slig's statements. It's obvious that I reference my own or surrounding neighborhoods a lot, and that I am more than comfortable in promoting my own neighborhood (and feel strongly about it). But the n'hoods I tend to speak of are those that I have the most knowledge of and experience living in here in the Metro (and I often give a disclaimer specifically about my bias) - I do, however, talk about other neighborhoods I have resided in - Elliot Park, Lowry Hill East, and the Whittier neighborhood, but total time spent in all 3 of those neighborhoods combined is less than the time I have lived "over North". Regarding my own stated concerns of neighborhood disparagement - I am perhaps more sensitive to this than the average person as I work in community development (not in my own n'hood), and if it seems like my responses don't represent many neighborhoods/ areas of the city, it's because I generally don't like attempting to speak knowledgably on things that I don't have a lot of knowledge of (I have learned the fallacies of this from a lot of encounters w/ people on here re: the northside, Slig I wouldn't include you in this group as you do seem very familiar and fair when speaking on a lot of city areas). IMO, generalizations (and/or reputations, and/or crime statistics, and/or real estate values), whether positive or negative, don't necessarily tell the whole story of whether a neighborhood or area would be a good place to live or not. If I have friends in an area, or have read alot about an area, I might feel comfortable speaking about said areas to someone on here (I have often mentioned Seward, NE, Longfellow, Powderhorn, Robbinsdale, and other areas of the metro as potential areas for persons to relocate to), but if not, I don't feel that I have anything valuable to share or might not be giving an accurate picture of an area - regardless of how familiar I am with the various "statistical data".

And let's be honest, there are not many "regulars" on here that live in North Minneapolis, so it often is overlooked (in general) by many as a potential place to explore in their relocation when it might be a great option for them - a couple of generalized paragraphs by an OP does not necessarily tell us if someone would or would not be open to a variety of different options (I would think they would want as many opinions on as many different options as possible, I know I would), and if the OP comes from a much larger urban environment like DC, NYC, Chicago, etc. - our 'localized' perception of their ideal n'hood might be dramatically different than theirs based on individual conceptions of crime, safety, diversity, price points, etc. So, if my focus on the northside offends anyone and/or is viewed as shameless self-promotion or sugarcoating, my apologies, but I do not feel that I am guilty of misleading anyone and/or providing falsehoods or inaccuracies in my posts here (my wife does sometimes call me a zealot, however, so she might be a little bit right about that).

[Slig]

I would agree that you're a zealot for Camden & Victory, which isn't at all bad. If you aren't a zealot for your neighborhood then you probably aren't living in the right place. I've been in Powderhorn for almost a year now. I think at the one year point I'll create a topic summarizing my experiences of life in Powderhorn. Overall they have been very positive but I've had a few negative experiences and nothing will be held back. I'm going to tell you right now, I'd WAY rather live in Powderhorn than uptown.