Moving to Minn - confused about commute (Minneapolis, Bloomington: crime, safe neighborhood)

[uptown_urbanist]

The only way you could call SW across-the-board "upper-crust" is if you consider the "upper crust" label EXTREMELY broad. Some parts of SW are expensive, but other neighborhoods are filled with plenty of young families who want to live in a safe neighborhood near the lakes but can't afford Linden Hills or Uptown. Sure, the north side probably offers more house for the money, but there are plenty of people who prefer SW for other reasons. Many of my friends and family who live in SW would laugh heartily if they knew they were considered "affluent."

Plus, even if you are talking about nice but expensive areas like Linden Hills that "upper crust" attitude includes things like Linden Hills Power and Light - an innovative compost-to-energy program, as well as a general committment to developing a sense of community.

While Kingfield (also SW) isn't "urban" enough (in terms of ensity of walkable amenities) for my taste, I'm increasingly impressed with the neighborhood's residents and their track record of community-building. I'd give that neighborhood serious consideration, too. It's a nice area with many beautiful homes, and not too far from Lake Harriet.

[Camden Northsider]

OK everyone...DaPerp - you're correct about the fact that I ocassionally need to be reminded to practice what I preach - point well taken. And just to clarify, I was referring to the farther SW neighborhoods (not including King Field, Lowry's, Whittier, etc.- and I've heard a number of SW residents define "true" SW as not including those areas) - e.g. the Linden Hills crowd. My experiences are drawn from 1 of 3 things: (1) persons I know that live in SW, either examples themselves or stories they've told; (2) social functions in private homes that I've attended in SW and their SW-residing attendes; and (3) comments made on this board. I have friends in SW so I know there are great people there, but I do feel that my "experiences" represent a sample of the population large enough to be able to draw some vague generalizations (admittedly just that, and again, probably not worth mentioning on a board like this).

However, I do think that there are a lot of people on this forum that lack creativity/ originality and seem to think that the only nice area in the city proper where someone could safely raise a family is Southwest Minneapolis (or Highland and Mac/ Groveland in St. Paul)- at least this is what gets mentioned 9 out of 10 times here, and IMO, glossing over all of the other great areas in the city/ immediate suburbs is misleading the greater general public and likely to contribute to an increase in our metro area's foreclosure crisis (there's not that many people that could afford to actually buy a home in Linden Hills no matter how hard they try).

Originally Posted by uptown_urbanist

Sure, the north side probably offers more house for the money, but there are plenty of people who prefer SW for other reasons.

Uptown - you failed to mention any reasons to go along with this sentence, and I am very curious what the reasons are (outside of "status symbol" that is) that would justify a SW home listing, on average, about $300K greater than Minneapolis' average listing price. There are neighborhoods with great parks, schools, bike trails, business nodes, low crime, beautiful housing stock (and even some nice lakes/ rivers) throughout Minneapolis proper, and they generally have a lot less traffic and congestion- what does justify the Southwest craze?

[DaPerpKazoo]

I think southwest gets a lot of recommendations because there are a lot of people on this board who live there, live there are really like it. I mean, most of us haven't ever said anything bad about the north side, we just tend to promote the areas we know well more than the areas we don't know well. How am I supposed to suggest neighborhoods that I know almost nothing about? You do the exact same thing- and it's good to have people that live in different neighborhoods on here so that they all get representation.

[uptown_urbanist]

Camden, I get what you're saying and I agree that many people are very quick to point out the benefits of other neighborhoods. Part of the problem is that there are a lot of us on this board who live over in these areas, so we're just more familiar with the south side of the city.

I wouldn't choose to live in much of SW, actually; Linden Hills, maybe, but other areas (Kenny, Fulton, Windom, etc.) aren't my style. (I don't usually think of Uptown as SW) I was referring more to personal reasons more than anything, I guess - people (including those of various income levels) choose SW to live near family, because they grew up there, because they love the specific lakes or neighborhoods or because it's closer to work, among other reasons. If I drove and wanted a nice, big house I might very well consider somewhere north.

My favorite areas of the city are Uptown, Whittier, Marcy-Holmes, and Linden Hills, and I personally wouldn't buy over in north Minneapolis (or in M-H, much as I love it) - NOT because it's undesirable, but because I want to live within walking distance from family. (and also within close walking distance to multiple restaurants, at least one grocery store, and multiple bus routes.) Location is the top priority for me. That's a personal thing, and I think everyone's choice of neighborhood is a blend of practical personal tastes and needs.

I wouldn't call a SW address a status symbol, although it probably is for some people.

My personal pet peeves are the assertions that everyone in Uptown is a trust fund kid hipster, that you can't raise a kid here, and that there's no sense of community. I also hate the idea that someone might have a particular stereotype about who I am and what my values are based strictly on my zip code.

[Camden Northsider]

Originally Posted by DaPerpKazoo

I think southwest gets a lot of recommendations because there are a lot of people on this board who live there, live there are really like it. I mean, most of us haven't ever said anything bad about the north side, we just tend to promote the areas we know well more than the areas we don't know well. How am I supposed to suggest neighborhoods that I know almost nothing about? You do the exact same thing- and it's good to have people that live in different neighborhoods on here so that they all get representation.

I somewhat take offense to the fact that everyone thinks I'm complaining about the lack of North representation in my responses in this thread - I actually haven't recommend the OP look in north, outside of possibly keeping an eye on my neighborhood in which s/he likely won't find much in the way of a rental come up (in response to his question to me about "northern areas"), really the only areas I generally recommended to take a look at were robbinsdale, golden valley, and a broader range of south minneapolis neighborhoods.

I really just feel like these forums get to be like a broken record - if someone wants to relocate their family to one of the cities proper (or even sometimes if they don't), it seems like everyone's responses are on autopilot to recommend one or a combination of SW Mpls, Highland, Mac/Groveland, or one of the St. Anthony's. There are app. 80 neighborhoods in Minneapolis, and I don't know how many more in St. Paul. I think you're right in that it does have a lot to do with the areas people on this board are representing, and yes, this is why i talk so much about my own neighborhood. But I also think we can assume that there's a diverser bunch of people coming on here looking for advice on types of neighborhoods that would best fit their families' needs than what is represented in just a handful of neighborhoods of both cities.

[uptown_urbanist]

Another issue is that often the people asking for advice are pretty vague about they're looking for in a neighborhood. (understandably so, as most people start broad and narrow it down as they figure out what's available in their price range and how their lists of needs and wants matches up) I think it is inevitable that when someone wants a nice safe neighborhood that people toss out the standard list of popular choices, at least to begin with.

[Slig]

To avoid further confusion please review this map of the city:
http://www.ci.minneapolis.mn.us/abou...ghborhoods.pdf

According to the map Whittier, Lyndale, Steven's Square and Lowry Hill East are not considered part of SW. Whittier and Lyndale are part of Powderhorn and Steven's Square is part of Central (downtown).

SW covers the following neighborhoods: Linden Hills, East Harriet, King Field, Fulton, Lynnhurst, Tangletown, Armatage, Kenny and Windom. I agree with Camden, all of these neighborhoods are uppercrust and also very homogenous (besides King Field they are all 90-98% white neighborhoods.)

[uptown_urbanist]

What exactly do you guys mean by "upper crust" and "upper crust attitude"? I wonder if we're defining this differently? Because many of the SW neighborhoods are pretty solidly middle class, with a lot of younger couples and working families.

[Camden Northsider]

Originally Posted by uptown_urbanist

What exactly do you guys mean by "upper crust" and "upper crust attitude"? I wonder if we're defining this differently? Because many of the SW neighborhoods are pretty solidly middle class, with a lot of younger couples and working families.

Uptown, I'm not sure if you're referring to persons that have lived in the neighborhood for 10-15+ years. I'm sure there are a lot of people who bought in SW prior to the boom in real estate values (and/or live in family homes) and would qualify as solidly middle class. And neighborhoods like King Field yes tend to be more middle class. But in areas like Linden Hills, which tends to be mentioned most of the SW n'hoods on this forum- surely you agree that anyone that has bought in this neighborhood within the past 5-10 years (and the bigger homes prior to that) would definitely qualify as upper-income individuals- if not they would have long ago foreclosed by now. And you have to admit that for many, a Southwest Minneapolis address has become a status symbol in Minneapolis and the greater Metropolitan area- I would consider these type of people to generally have "upper crust attitudes".

This is a very random example, but whenever I order deliveries of mulch or other goods that are generally ordered by persons with some level of disposable income (even if it's just a small amount of it like myself), it is a very common occurrence that the delivery guy autopilots to the Southwest Minneapolis version of my address, despite me clarifying a "north" address multiple times on the phone beforehand, and then calls me to ask where I'm at (at the SW home), and then needs guidance on how to get across town to the Northside. I'm not sure how this story is related, but it seemed applicable when I started.

[Slig]

I've only been in Minneapolis a short time but there have been at least 3-4 people I've talked to from SW/Calhoun Isles neighborhoods who fit your generalism. I love the reaction I get from them when they ask me where in Minneapolis I live and I explain that I'm in Powderhorn over by South High School and Matt's Bar. Usually they reply with "Oh...." as if they cross over to the east side of the freeway and step straight into hell or something. I usually get weird looks from neighbors when I drive around there, like they're a moment away from calling the cops or crime prevention specialist on me because they see a dented pre-2006 domestic car driving down their street.

Recently a doctor from the Kenwood area telling my wife it wasn't safe to take the light rail and to get on a bus on intersections like Franklin and Bloomington, Chicago and Lake, Cedar and Lake, etc. at any time. This is a guy who has never taken public transportation before in his life and the only time he is on my side of town is to go to the YWCA. That's the kind of ignorance that plagues the population from that part of the city. No matter where you go, wealthy people seem to be in their own world.