University of St. Thomas (St. Cloud, Mankato: loan, private schools, subsidized)

[MN-Born-n-Raised]

Originally Posted by golfgal

I disagree with this. When I was at St. Ben's we regularly got calls from recruiters in the south BEGGING for people to come work down there because of the quality of education in MN. Texas schools were hiring people over the phone and offering pretty substantial relocation bonuses as well. No, it doesn't matter if your Diploma says the U of M or St. Thomas to many of these companies but having a MN school was a BIG bonus. Even today you attend job fairs on various campuses and you find many companies from the south there recruiting.

As for the added cost of St. Olaf vs the U of M, there is a HUGE misunderstanding how this actually works. The private schools often end up be much LESS expensive then the state schools because they have more money to give. I know at CSB/SJU if you have a 3.75 or above is an automatic $12,000 scholarship, making tuition right in line with the state schools, then add in other grants and scholarships and many kids go to private schools for little or nothing. Yes, the initial price tag is high but it doesn't mean that is what you will pay.

Your point for $$'s at St. Thomas is correct but not at St Olaf. It's about $20K with some decent grades at St. Thomas (living on campus) but $32K at St. Olaf. I was talking with a St. Olaf grad last night (33 ACT; #3 class ranking at Anoka out of 575). Those are the numbers. She got a $6K per year scholarship. Last year it was $$38K w/o any $$'s or $32K for her.

If she would have went to U of MN with those grades, figure $3K less for a scholarship per year. U of MN loaded up (books, on campus, and tuition) is $17.5K (minus $3K for a academic scholarship). Hence, the delta is $32K - $14.5K or $17.5K per year or $70K total. That is reality. For St Thomas, the delta is about $20K for 4 years.

As far as out of state situations and a "name brand", we all know of our own situations. But we are talking about averages not specific statistical outliers. I'd rather be applying for a job with Carlson School of Management MBA on my resume over Metro U. I can certainly find you situations where it doesn't matter but as a whole, there IS a reason why CSOM MBA is in the top 20 in the USA. Personally, I'd pay that over a degree at St. Olaf. If nothing else, perception IS reality if someone beats you because of a name on the diploma.

Maybe in some circles it is nothing more stamp of approval. If you are a Harvard Grad, it "means" you are smart. In 2009, a CSOM MBA carries some weight. No, I don't have a CSOM MBA...

[MN-Born-n-Raised]

St. Olaf Comprehensive Fee:

Tuition: $35,500
Room and board: $8,200
Total: $43,700

St. Olaf Estimated Expenses:

Books: $1,000
Personal Expenses: $900
Estimated Total: $45,600


__________________________________________________ ____________


At St. Thomas: Business Communication $783.50 per credit x 30 per year or a (worse case) tuition of $23,400. Price excludes the room and board, books etc). So the difference is $35.5K - $23.4K or $12.1K per year from St. Thomas vs. St. Olaf (non discounted to non discounted). My point was, what are you getting for that $12.1K x 4 years over St. Thomas???? Then, what are you getting over the U of MN. Even worse, how about Winona, Mankato, St. Cloud?? All three of those colleges are $3K less per year or $12K for less for a 4 year degree???

So MN State University (loaded up) is $13K x 4 or $52K loaded up versus $128K at St. Olaf. Both of these prices are AFTER an aggressive academic scholarship. Worse yet, people "think" they heard of MN University (a.k.a. Mankato) but who is St. Olaf????

Factoid: Mankato intentionally changed their name to "MN State University" for marketing reasons. Obviously, I agree with their rational... Can you tell I have been studying all of this college stuff too much???

To save even more, my daughter was in "PSEO" where she goes to college while at high school. Schools down play it (think lost revenue). My daughter got about 1.5 years complete of college. At a budget college, that is saving me $20K. My Son will finish high school with two years complete or a $30K savings. In this economy, it is something to consider.... Oh, colleges LOVE PSEO! If they get good grades, it will translate into higher academic scholarships; it "proves" they are mature and can handle the load. It's not for everyone but it worked out well for my Kid's.

[MN-Born-n-Raised]

Hi Repubocrat,
Reputations are made over time. IF they still do that practice of "credit for experience", I feel justified at looking down at that college. I have no doubt that people still learn a lot from attending Metro U even if they still do "credits for experience", but it definitely takes away from their credentials.

You mentioned an online degree at Indiana University. Again, if someone was in my office applying for a job and he or she had an online degree, I'd perceive them to have a "pay per view" degree. Maybe others would respect that degree but it would be a flag in my mind. So long as at least some people view it this way (and I know I am not alone) where you go to school still matters.

I own my own company so it doesn't matter anywhere near as much. But I can promise you that those who graduated from Penn State, U of MN (CSOM), etc will value where you go. It's certainly is part of the decision whenever I interviewed someone in the past. It won't matter to everyone but certainly you must admit all things being equal (or ever $10K apart on a Masters Degree) you would pony up the extra dollars. Hence, the name and reputation must be worth something.

[golfgal]

Originally Posted by MN-Born-n-Raised

Hi Repubocrat,
Reputations are made over time. IF they still do that practice of "credit for experience", I feel justified at looking down at that college. I have no doubt that people still learn a lot from attending Metro U even if they still do "credits for experience", but it definitely takes away from their credentials.

You mentioned an online degree at Indiana University. Again, if someone was in my office applying for a job and he or she had an online degree, I'd perceive them to have a "pay per view" degree. Maybe others would respect that degree but it would be a flag in my mind. So long as at least some people view it this way (and I know I am not alone) where you go to school still matters.

I own my own company so it doesn't matter anywhere near as much. But I can promise you that those who graduated from Penn State, U of MN (CSOM), etc will value where you go. It's certainly is part of the decision whenever I interviewed someone in the past. It won't matter to everyone but certainly you must admit all things being equal (or ever $10K apart on a Masters Degree) you would pony up the extra dollars. Hence, the name and reputation must be worth something.

Do you really think that after you get your first job it matters at all where you went, unless you are in a highly technical field, your college experience matters little to none after you have worked for a couple years. I would also have to add that the network of grads I come across from CSB/SJU is amazing and I don't see that network from the U of M or any other school. In this situation having a degree from CSB/SJU would make somewhat of a difference as many CSB/SJU grads often grant inteview to other CSB/SJU grads just because. In my experience the only time it really matters where you went is when someone you run into also went there and they ask "did you know xxx?".

I also think your St. Thomas numbers are way off. There is not that much difference between the MIAC schools for tuition, with the exception of Carleton and Macalaster. St. Ben's/St. John's run in the 35K range, St. Thomas's website has them at $37,500. Also, if you take into consideration J-Term, optional at St. Thomas, required at St. Olaf, that adds another $4600 to UST, putting it at $42,100, pretty dang close to St. Olaf.

Also, depending on the program you take but you bet if you are a music major that people all over the country will know of St. Olaf.

I will say again, based on my experience and the experience of EVERYONE I know that attended a private college, private colleges are LESS expensive in the long run then state schools because of the grants and scholarships available through the schools-which would NOT be available to a student attending a state school.

[MN-Born-n-Raised]

Originally Posted by golfgal

Do you really think that after you get your first job it matters at all where you went, unless you are in a highly technical field, your college experience matters little to none after you have worked for a couple years. I would also have to add that the network of grads I come across from CSB/SJU is amazing and I don't see that network from the U of M or any other school. In this situation having a degree from CSB/SJU would make somewhat of a difference as many CSB/SJU grads often grant inteview to other CSB/SJU grads just because. In my experience the only time it really matters where you went is when someone you run into also went there and they ask "did you know xxx?".

I also think your St. Thomas numbers are way off. There is not that much difference between the MIAC schools for tuition, with the exception of Carleton and Macalaster. St. Ben's/St. John's run in the 35K range, St. Thomas's website has them at $37,500. Also, if you take into consideration J-Term, optional at St. Thomas, required at St. Olaf, that adds another $4600 to UST, putting it at $42,100, pretty dang close to St. Olaf.

Also, depending on the program you take but you bet if you are a music major that people all over the country will know of St. Olaf.

I will say again, based on my experience and the experience of EVERYONE I know that attended a private college, private colleges are LESS expensive in the long run then state schools because of the grants and scholarships available through the schools-which would NOT be available to a student attending a state school.

I got my numbers off of their respective websites. St. Olaf rates was a matter of coping and pasting. St. Thomas tuition is degree dependent see University of St. Thomas : Graduate Financial Aid : Tuition Rates . There is 30 credits in a year. It's nothing more than 30 times the per credit rate. Tuition to Tuition is in fact as I stated. This correlates to people who I know who are going to the respective schools. No doubt about it....

We disagree about the price of private versus public. It's not even close including all of the scholarships. Disclaimer: Students apply for scholarships at say St. Thomas and don't bother to apply at the U of MN. Guess what, They get $6K at St Thomas and zero at U of MN. Now the difference is $3K per year. So they say 'it's about the same". Not. They didn't apply for $$'s at the U. Lot's of people forget to multiply by 4 (years). So that $3K difference really is $12k. Plus, if they got $$'s at the U of MN, then that is also multiplied by 4. So in our specific situation, my daughter got $3K per year at UMD ("Presidential Scholarship") plus $1K for the 1st year which is a State deal for being in the top 10% or less in your class. So it's $10,200 including fees - $3k OR $7200 per year plus books ($1200) and room and board and the food plan of $6K. The total is $14K. So find me a St. (whatever) for $14K. It's not going to happen. It will be $19K loaded per year at St. Thomas and $32k for St. Olaf WITH grants, scholarships etc etc.

Without question, there are trade offs where you go to school. Relationships play a role and are advantages for many private colleges. As I said before, I think that going to St. Thomas is a plus if you plan on selling life and business insurance (as an example).

Certainly after a while, the importance of a specific school matters less and less. If you as a CFO of General Mills and went to St. Thomas, that position speaks for itself. Many times, people get their jobs from existing relationships. If they like you and what you can do for them, for that specific situation, the college is meaningless. But if you apply for something and your resume is in a stack of 100 others (2009 for instance), where you went to college will still say a lot.

[uptown_urbanist]

I agree with much of what everyone is saying, but not necessarily that state schools automatically don't offer as much funding. I went to the U of MN and through a combination of both merit and financial need-based scholarships (both through the U and from outside sources) kept my costs very low. Apply to both types of schools, see what the financial packages look like, and then make your offer. It is true that for most people the final number doesn't match the sticker price.

Depending on the field I think it DOES matter where you got your undergraduate degree from. That lessens as time goes by and you either get a graduate degree or gain actual job experience, but for some people it still absolutely does matter. For me a degree from St. Thomas would be on par with a degree from the U, but a degree from an online university or from either a school I'd never heard of or from a school I thought of as a party school would signal "intellectual lightweight." I'm not saying that's fair, and it would probably be balanced by other things on the resume, but I also don't think it's realistic to say that the degree-granting college ceases to matter once you get that first job.

[Camden Northsider]

Originally Posted by MN-Born-n-Raised

It very well may matter where you go to college 20 years from now (depending on the degree and position). For instance if you go to St. Thomas and move to Texas, who the heck has heard of THAT college in TX??? In case of a tie, you lose with your no-name brand college. If you go to U of MN (most resume's don't then say Morris or Duluth) you have a name-brand degree with the U of MN or U of WI.

WRONG. I always have and always will put University of Minnesota- Morris on my resume as in my experience, locally it has a better reputation for having strong academics than the main campus. When applying for jobs out of state in the past, the U of M name is still recognizable and I always assumed that if a person was seriously considering me, they would have enough internet skills to do some basic research and potentially come to the same conclusion about Morris themselves (plus I generally hyperlinked to the college's website right on the resume for them). So it's sort of been like icing on the cake.

BTW, Morris was just named 3rd in the nation in regards to the overall percentage of students that studied abroad prior to graduation (a lot of other MN schools made the list, St. Olaf, St. Ben's I believe were in the teens, Macalester and Carleton were somewhere in the 20s).

[Repubocrat]

Originally Posted by MN-Born-n-Raised

You mentioned an online degree at Indiana University. Again, if someone was in my office applying for a job and he or she had an online degree, I'd perceive them to have a "pay per view" degree. Maybe others would respect that degree but it would be a flag in my mind. So long as at least some people view it this way (and I know I am not alone) where you go to school still matters.

Indiana University(Kelley) is a top 20 business school. The online MBA degree looks EXACTLY like the FT on campus MBA degree and as a recruiter, you would NEVER know if that person did it online or in person. Many other schools offer similar programs including: Syracuse, Arizona State, Florida State, U of Florida, Nebraska, Colorado State, Massachussets, Carnegie Mellon, even Duke(Fuqua) now offers an online MBA degree for about 100K. The University of St Thomas also offers a MBA online. I would not question the reputation of any of the schools mentioned above, they are for the most part good, reputable and solid institutions.

[MN-Born-n-Raised]

I think we have to agree to disagree on some of these points because no ones mind can easily be changed. Certainly the person who paid $140K at St Olaf (as an example) thought their decision was a smart one; even if they went $80K into debt. The person I was talking to on Saturday night felt it was the correct decision for them.

A decision like what college to attend is personal. Mysteriously, many campuses are full of students so they must all fill a void.

[golfgal]

Originally Posted by MN-Born-n-Raised

I got my numbers off of their respective websites. St. Olaf rates was a matter of coping and pasting. St. Thomas tuition is degree dependent see University of St. Thomas : Graduate Financial Aid : Tuition Rates . There is 30 credits in a year. It's nothing more than 30 times the per credit rate. Tuition to Tuition is in fact as I stated. This correlates to people who I know who are going to the respective schools. No doubt about it....

We disagree about the price of private versus public. It's not even close including all of the scholarships. Disclaimer: Students apply for scholarships at say St. Thomas and don't bother to apply at the U of MN. Guess what, They get $6K at St Thomas and zero at U of MN. Now the difference is $3K per year. So they say 'it's about the same". Not. They didn't apply for $$'s at the U. Lot's of people forget to multiply by 4 (years). So that $3K difference really is $12k. Plus, if they got $$'s at the U of MN, then that is also multiplied by 4. So in our specific situation, my daughter got $3K per year at UMD ("Presidential Scholarship") plus $1K for the 1st year which is a State deal for being in the top 10% or less in your class. So it's $10,200 including fees - $3k OR $7200 per year plus books ($1200) and room and board and the food plan of $6K. The total is $14K. So find me a St. (whatever) for $14K. It's not going to happen. It will be $19K loaded per year at St. Thomas and $32k for St. Olaf WITH grants, scholarships etc etc.

Without question, there are trade offs where you go to school. Relationships play a role and are advantages for many private colleges. As I said before, I think that going to St. Thomas is a plus if you plan on selling life and business insurance (as an example).

Certainly after a while, the importance of a specific school matters less and less. If you as a CFO of General Mills and went to St. Thomas, that position speaks for itself. Many times, people get their jobs from existing relationships. If they like you and what you can do for them, for that specific situation, the college is meaningless. But if you apply for something and your resume is in a stack of 100 others (2009 for instance), where you went to college will still say a lot.

You are completely missing the point. The presidential scholarship at CSB/SJU is $12,000/YEAR x's 4 years, not just once. I know many, many, many people that attend priviate schools and pay ZERO because of grants and scholarships. Everyone I know applies at at least one state school and time and time again, the private schools end up coming in at or less then the state schools because of various forms of aid. It cost me $20,000 TOTAL to go to CSB, with loans and it would have cost me $30,000+ to go to a state school because of the aid packages offered.