University of St. Thomas

[MN-Born-n-Raised]

Originally Posted by golfgal

You are completely missing the point. The presidential scholarship at CSB/SJU is $12,000/YEAR x's 4 years, not just once. I know many, many, many people that attend priviate schools and pay ZERO because of grants and scholarships. Everyone I know applies at at least one state school and time and time again, the private schools end up coming in at or less then the state schools because of various forms of aid. It cost me $20,000 TOTAL to go to CSB, with loans and it would have cost me $30,000+ to go to a state school because of the aid packages offered.

I think I finally get one of your main points. The key word is GRANTS (such as a government "Pell" Grant).

In our governments infinite wisdom, if someone needs help based off of a FAFSA score (Federal Student Aid) they will grant a dollar figure based on where you want to go to college. So if your family earns $25K a year with 6 children and you want to go to St. Olaf at $32K a year price tag (AFTER an impressive academic grant), the governments doesn't feel it fair to offer you anything less than what you want. Meaning, if they think you have the $'s to contribute $4K per year to college, then they will (more or less) pony up the difference. Potentially the Education Department figures it's your God given right to have that St. Olaf experience. So in this example (so long as your FAFSA score hits it mark) that students college expense is $4K at Winonna or $4K at St. Olaf.

For fun, there is a preliminary FAFSA website that gives you an idea on what they will pay. I plugged on my numbers and it came to zero support. Then for fun, I put in $40K family wages, zero savings, no assets that counted against you, intentially put in a high mortgage of $400K and the aid that would be offer was exclusively a discounted interest rate loan. In summary, based off of Andover's average demographics there will be zero Pell Grants in this town. Hence, I have not met a student in my daughters circle of freinds that got some help.

Independent of govenment grants, I've met zero people to date excluding Pell grants that told me St. (fill in the blank) was equal $'s let alone LESS dollars. I must have talked with 50 parents over the past 2 seasons of graduation parties (and a lot of impressive ACT scores and class rankings). I've also been to my fair share of school visits and "college days". I still don't think it's possible.

But for fun, I will try to give admissions a call to get the final verdict. None the less, it is a fact that St. Olaf is considerably more $$'s and only someone with near zero means of paying for it can get an equal price tag.

[MN-Born-n-Raised]

Originally Posted by golfgal

You are completely missing the point. The presidential scholarship at CSB/SJU is $12,000/YEAR x's 4 years, not just once. I know many, many, many people that attend priviate schools and pay ZERO because of grants and scholarships. Everyone I know applies at at least one state school and time and time again, the private schools end up coming in at or less then the state schools because of various forms of aid. It cost me $20,000 TOTAL to go to CSB, with loans and it would have cost me $30,000+ to go to a state school because of the aid packages offered.

I talked with Judy at the College of St. Benedict financial aid / admissions. She is the head in that department.

In summary, getting a close tuition price tag is very easy with academic based scholarships. The Presidential is a maximum of $12,500 and the max is guaranteed with an ACT of 30, 3.6 GPA. Additionally, they will offer an interview if you do exceed an ACT score of 30 and a top class ranking. It's called the "Regents Trustees". So there is an additional possibility of $2.5K (totaling $15K) for the right student (many service hours etc) but that is an interview process. Most get a $1K and it is rare for the total $15K. If you have an ACT of 26 or more, you will get some $$'s under the Presidential program but probably not the full $12.5K. Typical is $6K-$8K.

Judy said there is up to $2500 additional for the fine arts and that is an interview process for some of the very talented students.

So if you are in the top 2% in the country on your ACT (30) and get THE maximum Regents Trustees scholarship after your interview (totaling $15K) AND you are a super talented artist and get the maximum amount, your total tuition is $30,200-$15,000-$2500 or $12,700. But, the room and food plan is $8358 versus state colleges that charge around $6,000 or an additional $2350 for private (State schools is subsidized). So you it would be like comparing $12,700 plus $2350 or $15,050 for THE best scholarship plan amusing your child was in the fine arts. So the total for that blessed student would be $12,700 plus $8350+$800 for books or $21,850 per year. She said St. Thomas was the same price but not according to St. Thomas web site.

But, if you have an ACT of 30 and apply at the U of MN, figure a solid $3K+ scholarship per year. If you are a talented women going into the science, it could easily be 1/2 ride at the U. Therefore the retail price of $10,500 tuition at the U of MN (which is the highest priced State college) minus $3K for a scholarship is $7.5K. Independent of the fact that the housing is cheaper at the U of MN, it's still $12,700-$7500 or $5200 more per year. If you were normalizing it to the increase in housing, its $75xx more per year. At the U of MN, you can live at home, at St. John, you need to live on campus for two years.

Judy said the only other variables are grants. They are Federal and State PLUS the school grants from Alumina. Those are exclusively financial based. The State and federal amounts are fixed. The school amounts have flexibility but are also firmly based off of the FAFSA amount you can "afford". Meaning, they will only go up to the amount that FAFSA says you can afford. So if FAFSA says you can afford $18K in school fees ($40K in income) that means your Regents Trustees scholarship covers most of that difference.

Judy opinion said generally speaking that St. Ben's / Johns will always be more and possibly a tie with the right financial aid package. She could envision a person paying "less" but that would be rare in 2009 (not getting a state college scholarship). She then said not to forget the fact that a typical public school takes 5 years to finish (hard to get a specific class etc) so the REAL cost could be different. It took me 6 year back in the 80's.

She said that all and all, the St. (fill in the black) are very close in price but St. Olaf. But the true exact cost when financial aid in in play cannot be had from the web site. With my income, it would be impossible for the costs to be less than a state subsidized public school. Now, this is 2009 data. I cannot speak for years past. But I can promise you it is accurate.

That is the final verdict.

[rcsteiner]

Originally Posted by MN-Born-n-Raised

Factoid: Mankato intentionally changed their name to "MN State University" for marketing reasons. Obviously, I agree with their rational... Can you tell I have been studying all of this college stuff too much???

Speaking as a graduate of Mankato State University, I hate the new name.

It made sense for marketing reasons, perhaps, to steal the name of a school from a television show, but it erases over 100 years of history. The institution had been called "Mankato State .... something" since 1868, be it Normal School, Teacher's College, College, or University. Now it sounds like a University of Minnesota wannabe.

St. Cloud State, Winona State, and Bemidji State have kept their old names thusfar... So why was Mankato State so quick to sell out?

[MN-Born-n-Raised]

Originally Posted by rcsteiner

Speaking as a graduate of Mankato State University, I hate the new name.

It made sense for marketing reasons, perhaps, to steal the name of a school from a television show, but it erases over 100 years of history. The institution had been called "Mankato State .... something" since 1868, be it Normal School, Teacher's College, College, or University. Now it sounds like a University of Minnesota wannabe.

St. Cloud State, Winona State, and Bemidji State have kept their old names thusfar... So why was Mankato State so quick to sell out?

Before 1977, the athletic teams were called the "Mankato Indians". In 1977, they were changed to the Mavericks. So it seems their 100 year tradition is all about change.

[rcsteiner]

Originally Posted by MN-Born-n-Raised

Before 1977, the athletic teams were called the "Mankato Indians". In 1977, they were changed to the Mavericks. So it seems their 100 year tradition is all about change.

My guess is the change away from "Indians" was driven by outside politically-correct interests.

The institutional name changes I cited (aside from the recent name change) were mainly driven by an actual change in the nature of the school.