Realistically - at rush hour (Eagan, Minnetonka: high school, live in, suburbs)

[uptown_urbanist]

These responses had nothing to do with "hatred" of the suburbs - just making sure that the OP knew that the opinions earlier stated were not shared by many people in the Twin Cities.

[DaPerpKazoo]

Golfgal,

I live in Kingfield, attend a private high school in St. Louis Park, and as a student at a suburban commuter school, I spend more time than I would like to in the suburbs. I can confidently say that I hate suburbs, having experienced them regularly. I hate everything about then, and it sure isn't due to ignorance.

Though I would never live in any of these places, parts of Golden Valley, Richfield, and St. Louis Park are doable to downtown in 15 mins during rush hour. If you aren't in the real peak of rush hour, Edina and Hopkins can be done in 15 mins. Anything further west is going to be longer than 15 in rush hour. Outside of rush hour you can get downtown from almost anywhere in the west metro in under 10 mins once you're on the freeway. Even during rush hour the west and northwest metro will be mostly under 25 mins, as long as you're actually in a suburb rather than an exurb.

I think most people who hate the suburbs don't do so out of ignorance. They have legitimately experienced the lifestyle, known the people, the land use, and the waste, and decided that they dislike it.

[uptown_urbanist]

Originally Posted by golfgal

you will find that there is a very definite hatred toward the suburbs here, yet many of those that bash the suburbs admit they have never been to these suburbs. They can say what they want about various schools in Minneapolis but the reality is that they don't stack up in terms of overall education and safety of students that you will find in the suburbs.

I know that many of the regulars on this board aren't huge fans of the suburbs, but I haven't found that they typically "bash" the suburbs or comment on cities/suburbs/neighborhoods that they haven't visited (if anything, certain city neighborhoods face that problem on a more frequent basis). Many of the more avid city supporters readily offer up suburban advice - based on their experiences working, visiting, and sometimes previously living - and genuinely try to provide posters with good advice.

And, for what it's worth, my Minneapolis Public Schools education could easily match up against any of the "top" suburban districts. I don't say that schools such as those found in places like Eden Prairie are "bad" (although it's naive to think that they don't have their own problems) and in return I wish more people would acknowledge that it is possible (and it is!) for a student to get a quality education in a city school.

It's misleading and unfair to those looking for useful advice to indulge in uninformed stereotypes - and that's equally true whether one is writing about the city or the suburbs.

[krillbee]

I've commuted from Roseville to downtown Minneapolis, but I've always arrived downtown well before 7:30. It took around 20-25 minutes on average, depending on traffic. 35W would get busy, but it wasn't just stalled still. This was about 3 years ago though.

PM commutes were a different story. It could easily take 10+ minutes to get out of downtown, because Washington Ave would be very backed up to get onto 35W. I would then face more congestion the moment I got off of 35W and onto Highway 36 in Roseville. 36 can be a devestating crawl in the afternoon rush hour. I could expect the commute home to be 10 minutes longer at least, and worse in bad weather. The trip is 9 miles.

Sometimes not taking the freeway is actually faster. I feel like Roseville is pretty typical traffic-wise for an inner ring suburb.

[BarbaraMN]

Depending on where you will live and if you need a car during the work day--the bus can frequently get you there faster than driving, especially if you factor in that you don't have to spend time parking. I live in SW Minneapolis, very close to the Edina border. It used to take about 15 minutes on a very regular bus (no waiting at the stop) to my Nicollet Ave office--getting home saved more time.

[Slig]

Originally Posted by golfgal

Grow up--our district is being proactive in the event that the state budgets don't pan out and they can't send the money to the local districts like they normally do. Conversely the Minneapolis schools are always having budget issues and have to close schools on a regular basis.

Where did I mention anything about Minneapolis schools? In my previous post I was making comparisons between Roseville and Golden Valley to Hopkins, of which you think there is such a huge gap that you wouldn't even consider a move to Roseville and Golden Valley??? PLEASE. It is pretty obvious with the current state of depressed public funding is causing a pinch in every school district, so let's cut the crap with the budget argument as a way to label a specific school district as good or bad.

Stillthesame--you will find that there is a very definite hatred toward the suburbs here, yet many of those that bash the suburbs admit they have never been to these suburbs. They can say what they want about various schools in Minneapolis but the reality is that they don't stack up in terms of overall education and safety of students that you will find in the suburbs.

Now as you've changed the subject I might as well reply to this comment. I'm a 2000 graduate of Anoka high school and my education at that school was lousy, It took me a couple years of college to get caught up and I didn't really recover from my high school rut until my 3rd year of college. Did this have anything to do with the budget problems in district 11? Absolutely none, I had no idea there even were budget issues until you started scaring posters on here away from that area for that reason. I feel the quality of education at a school is directly correlated to the quality of staff, programs offered, diversity of student body/staff, and quality of facility. Anoka was overcrowding at the time but what threw me off was the lack of diversity and lack of programs like IB. Where are you getting this safety data from? In my suburb high school there was racial gang and racially motivated fights on a weekly basis. A kid in my Spanish class was expelled for telling me how fun it would be to be the kids at Columbine high school shooting up the place shortly after that happened. We had to leave school for bomb threats at least 3 times before I graduated. This isn't just my school, this kind of stuff happens at every high school. Wasn't it a Rosemount student who murdered another student last year? Yeah, the suburb schools sound a whole lot safer to me.

Also, unless you are driving on selected small stretches of highway, 494 between Bloomington and Eden Prairie, 696 in the northern suburbs and 35W coming out of Burnsville, you don't end up in stalled traffic. Your commute is generally always moving with the exception of the days were the weather is bad or there is an accident. It isn't like some major cities where a 20 minute commute gets you 5 miles.

I'm assuming you're referring to 694 as I'm not familiar with any road in the northern suburbs called "696." Anyways, if you can get 5 miles in 20 minutes during rush hour on 94 between Minneapolis and St. Paul, HWY 10 on the Foley Blvd bottleneck, 62 pretty much anywhere, 394 going in/out of downtown it is a blessing.

I do think that a 10 minute commute door to door into downtown Minneapolis from pretty much anywhere is not going to happen because of stoplights, parking, etc. I think you need to adjust your thinking to 20 minutes.

I can get downtown in 10 minutes from my house at any time of the day, no problem.

[DaPerpKazoo]

Originally Posted by Slig

I'm assuming you're referring to 694 as I'm not familiar with any road in the northern suburbs called "696." Anyways, if you can get 5 miles in 20 minutes during rush hour on 94 between Minneapolis and St. Paul, HWY 10 on the Foley Blvd bottleneck, 62 pretty much anywhere, 394 going in/out of downtown it is a blessing.

I would add hwy 100 to the congested list at that time of day. 169 is horrible south of 394 (at least in the afternoon, I don't know about the morning).

You're definitely right about 394 being a blessing.

[mnduck]

To the OP:

While 'city vs. suburbs' battles waged on this site are certainly entertaining, the categories of 'city' and 'suburbs' in the Twin Cities are in reality both large and heterogeneous and each contain a wide range of neighborhoods. Therefore, I wouldn't necessarily choose a particular place based upon whether it is located geographically in the 'city' or 'suburbs'- instead look around different types of neighborhoods to find where you feel comfortable.

To be honest, if you want a 10 minute commute to downtown, I'd probably look into somewhere in Minneapolis; St. Louis Park and Golden Valley would also be options. Don't discount the western part of St. Paul as well, which has interesting areas and is still not too far from downtown Mpls.

[Ben Around]

Originally Posted by uptown_urbanist

I know that many of the regulars on this board aren't huge fans of the suburbs, but I haven't found that they typically "bash" the suburbs or comment on cities/suburbs/neighborhoods that they haven't visited (if anything, certain city neighborhoods face that problem on a more frequent basis). Many of the more avid city supporters readily offer up suburban advice - based on their experiences working, visiting, and sometimes previously living - and genuinely try to provide posters with good advice.

And, for what it's worth, my Minneapolis Public Schools education could easily match up against any of the "top" suburban districts. I don't say that schools such as those found in places like Eden Prairie are "bad" (although it's naive to think that they don't have their own problems) and in return I wish more people would acknowledge that it is possible (and it is!) for a student to get a quality education in a city school.

It's misleading and unfair to those looking for useful advice to indulge in uninformed stereotypes - and that's equally true whether one is writing about the city or the suburbs.

My thoughts exactly. I have lived in suburbs and in cities and much prefer cities. As far as schools go, the city schools are much more diverse in terms of income, class, culture, command of the English language etc., and test scores reflect this. That's why test scores are a poor gauge of judging the quality of an education an individual child would get.

I graduated from a highly-regarded Catholic high school in another state. On paper we looked great (SAT, ACT, standardized tests), and 98% of us went on to higher education. But we (the 98%) couldn't pull the other 2% (largely immigrants and/or from low income families) along with us. In other words, you can send your kid to a great-test score school, but if he's got other issues going on, the test scores of the other students aren't going to help him get on par with the rest.

And stereotypes and broad brushes? As uptown_urbanist said, they are not helpful at all to those looking for useful advice.

[Ben Around]

Originally Posted by BarbaraMN

Depending on where you will live and if you need a car during the work day--the bus can frequently get you there faster than driving, especially if you factor in that you don't have to spend time parking. I live in SW Minneapolis, very close to the Edina border. It used to take about 15 minutes on a very regular bus (no waiting at the stop) to my Nicollet Ave office--getting home saved more time.

Excelllent point! I live and work in St Paul and commute by bus. It's about 25 minutes each way. On days when there is a snowstorm, I might need to add 10-15 minutes, but it's nothing like what my car-driving co-workers complain about! (The bus's secret is that it stays off the freeway! Local streets only, all the way home. When we pass over I-35E, I always see a sea of brakelights in the southbound (to the burbs) direction, and even see that occaisionally in the northbound direction. )