Suburb gangs

[rcsteiner]

Originally Posted by Minnehahapolitan

That is such a transparent lie I have to wonder how anyone listens to you. You must consider your neighborhood to only be the block that you live on.

In many suburban areas, there aren't "blocks" at all, but rather subdivisions or informal groups of houses. The "neighborhood" sure ain't the entire city.

My parents live in a neighborhood in Minnetonka built around 1960, as an example, and the small circle they live in *is* the neighborhood. It only has a dozen or so houses, but at one point it had a name (the sign is long gone), it is isolated from the other homes around by water and hills, it has a single isolated entry point, it has its own pond for ducks/skating and small wooded area for kids to play in, etc.

When I was growing up the kids there played together inside but didn't really venture outside the boundaries. The kids on the roads on either side might as well have lived on Pluto for all we cared ... we only saw them at school.

Here in Atlanta, a metro area which has been hit somewhat harder by the housing crisis than the Twin Cities, I live in a planned subdivision that has roughly 150 houses all designed and built as a cohesive community by a single builder (John Wieland) 15-20 years ago, and which is fairly isolated in a valley with only two ways in or out. We have an HOA (HomeOwners Association) to keep things neat, a pool/tennis courts/party building reserved for residents' use, etc.

That is my current neighborhood.

Since I don't even live in an incorporated area (unlike the Twin Cities, most of the "suburbs" in the Atlanta metro have no city level of government at all), the subdivision is really the only level of local organization outside of the county itself. By your definition, my "neighborhood" would probably be Cobb County, an entity with a population of well over 600,000 people. I guess you maybe could consider "Mableton" to be my neighborhood, since that is the local ZIP code and post office (named after the town that USED to exist in my area in the early 1910's), but you're still talking about a fairly large area on the order of a Minnetonka or Edina.

You need to change your definitions to fit suburban reality. Most suburban areas don't fall into the same neat categories that you see with "neighborhoods" in Minneapolis. If you're going to use confusing or poorly-defined terms, expect to get a variety of answers in return.

FWIW, we have one foreclosure in my subdivision that I'm aware of. It isn't boarded up, but it also isn't in bad shape. I think it's even being landscaped (mowed, etc) right now just like everyone else.

[Slig]

It looks like Golfgal's tastless blow to my neighborhood triggered some comparison between the two areas. Let me just say that it is RIDICULOUS to try and compare my neighborhood with Golfgal's. Here's why:

Median household income (2000 census):
Corcoran 33,393
Rosemount 65,916

The average age of homes in Rosemount is probably 5-10 years old while the average age of homes in Corcoran is about 90 years. Hey after this why don't you compare Frogtown to Orono or Camden's neighborhood to North Oaks? For what I'm paying for monthly house payments/expenses in Corcoran would probably not even be enough to pay rent for a 1 bedroom + den apartment in Rosemount, no thanks.

*Correction, I just looked on craigslist and there are virtually no 1 bedroom units available in the entire limits of Rosemount, just 2-4 bedroom houses and townhouses for rent and almost all are in the $1200-2400 range. I'm just devastated that I wasn't able to afford to rent a townhouse in the elite community of Rosemount for $1800 a month. I guess I'll continue to suffer and feel sorry for myself while I'm paying equity on a home I own for less than half the price and live 20 miles closer to everything.

[rcsteiner]

Originally Posted by Slig

It looks like Golfgal's tastless blow to my neighborhood triggered some comparison between the two areas. Let me just say that it is RIDICULOUS to try and compare my neighborhood with Golfgal's. Here's why:

Median household income (2000 census):
Corcoran 33,393
Rosemount 65,916

Such stats need to be taken with a grain of salt, anyway. For example, the closest incorporated city to my house is Smyrna, GA (the boundary is literally a few hundred yards to the north).

Estimated median household income in 2007: $52,900 (it was $47,572 in 2000)

However, there are at least two groups of $1million+ houses not that far from our place (and that's $1 million at Atlanta prices, not the higher prices in the Twin Cities), and I'm sure those people make a LOT more than $52k a year.

And yes, I LOVE the manor-style house I'm linking to above.

[Minnehahapolitan]

Well, if we are going off "neighborhoods" then I suppose mine only has two. I find anyone who would talk about the lack of foreclosures in their area to win arguments and slam other people's neighborhoods to be really sleazy and disgusting. I would never pin someone for being a bad neighbor based on their credit score, and that is exactly what GolfGal is doing -- no matter how you define a neighborhood.

[golfgal]

Originally Posted by uptown_urbanist

My brothers went to Seward, and I went to the same program before it was located at Seward; we all a good experience there. My only problem with Seward, actually, is that I hate the building.

And Golfgal, your response doesn't address the statistics about the top 1% of Minneapolis students being inferior ("vastly outdistanced") to the top 1% of suburban students. I have spent time in the schools, my mother worked in the schools until recently, and I have read the statistics. I haven't seen this magical 1% statistic anywhere, and while I haven't crunched the raw data myself (but I bet you haven't, either) a look at the numbers doesn't seem to support that assertion.

Things change, but they don't change that much that fast. I'm not THAT old. I was never teased for doing well in school - again, there were a lot of kids who did well - and, while I know things like that can happen, I can assure you that it's not just a city problem.

As for IB numbers falling, I didn't see that particular article, but I can 100% guarantee you that there are more than 99 kids in the Minneapolis system taking IB classes, or who are technically in the IB program. 99 kids is not enough to keep full programs in two high schools going. In 2007 Southwest alone had 43 IB diploma candidates (seniors), and 170 seniors taking IB courses. That's in addition to all the lower level students taking classes (the tests themselves come in Junior and Senior year).

Making the Grade - Minnesota Monthly - September 2008 - Minneapolis, St. Paul, Minnesota

So great, public city schools are not for you. Fine. Why spend so much time and energy trying to paint a picture that a kid - even one with parents who care about education - entering the system is doomed for failure? That's simply not true. There are problems, certainly, but there are also many concerned and caring parents, wonderful faculty, and a lot of community support. Besides, what society needs as a whole are community members who care about their students - all of them - and are willing to stand up for the schools and help them to do a better job in educating all students - not just twist around statistics and write off an entire system, try to tell people that even the top students are inferior, and otherwise try to convince yourself and everyone else that those who attend a city school are almost certainly doomed for failure. If the "rub off" theory were true, then isn't it even more important that parents who care keep their kids in the system? My son is going to MPS because I believe in both a quality education for him AND for his fellow students. The schools are part of the community, and I'm going to do my part to support them - not abandon them while simultaneously trying to destroy them through misinformation.

The kids that take the IB test you just backed up with your own stats, the 40 some kids. THOSE are the kids that they are rating the test scores and the "quality" of the school on-what about the REST of the kids. The 1% is about how many kids in those 2 Minneapolis kids that are taking the IB test are rated on, that is where that number comes from.
Again, we are talking HIGH SCHOOL not elementary school.

Originally Posted by Minnehahapolitan

That is such a transparent lie I have to wonder how anyone listens to you. You must consider your neighborhood to only be the block that you live on. Edina Realty has 17 foreclosed properties listed in Rosemount. They aren't concentrated in one area, either. They are spread right across the city. 217 properties are for sale in the 55068 ZIP code. Again, spread across the entire city. So maybe you can realize that Rosemount's s*** stinks just like the rest of our's. Maybe you should stop harping on Powderhorn's boarded properties when they exist right in your backyard too. The only difference between a vacant house in Powderhorn and a vacant house in Rosemount is that Rosemount is too good to actually put plywood over the windows. The only difference between a Rosemount kid taking oxycontin from their parents' medicine cabinet and a drug dealer at North High is that the kid at North High is smart enough to make money off it. Stop kidding yourself.

How is it a lie? In my NEIGHBORHOOD, our development if you want to call it that there is ONE house for sale. It is not just my block, the house that is for sale is about 3 blocks away from where we live. Come and walk around my neighborhood and look. Tell me how many for sale signs there are?? I never said there weren't foreclosed houses in Rosemount but the the question was to name one NEIGHBORHOOD in the metro that doesn't have a boarded up house so I did. I guess a neighborhood in Rosemount is different then a neighborhood in Minneapolis?? I looked on the Edina site and none of those houses are in our development. It shows 12 houses in foreclosure in a town of 20,000+ people.

Slig--you are the one that keeps talking about the boarded up houses in your neighborhood. You pay $1800/month for your house??? I'll take my house payment over your house payment any day, thanks, amazing what equity and 20 year of home ownership can do for your house payment.

[Slig]

Golfgal, please re-read my post.

[7th generation]

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