The Somali story (Minneapolis, St. Paul, Madison: loans, neighborhood, university)

[City_boy1]

Originally Posted by Sarah Maske

Thank you for your brave and thoughtful comments.

Thank you so much Sara .
Minneapolis people need to love one an other to stay strong.

[A Bihi]

Hi My name is A Bihi. I am Somali America community leader, civic engagemet organizer organizer and activist. I also live and work in the mecca of Somali immigrants in Cedar Riverside. I really want to thank everyone who is sharing about the Somali immigrant knowledge to educate the rest of the community.

I also lead a tour in the Somali community as well as present Somali culture to Academic, law enforcement, healthcare, couty, city and non profit institutions.

Somali American community has a wonderfull story to tell. We have acheived so much in a little time within so much barries, mainly language and cultural.

Those of you who have their doubts on us or rely so much on mainstream media, write me, I'll give you a free cultural tour that might give you a different opinion, POSITIVE I HOPE

Abdirizak Bihi
abihi@hotmail.com

[knke0402]

Well all the Somalis come to St Cloud now. St Cloud is little somalia

Yes, there are a small population that are "hard-working, smart, community active..etc etc, whatever, whatever" but many of them lack leadership and organization. I have NEVER seen such disrespect from any group of people than Somalis in St. Cloud, as it seems they refuse to become assimilated.

In St Cloud High schools, particularly TECH HIGH, there is a huge ethnic clash between Somalis, whites, and blacks. The African American population is angered at Somalis because they are often associated as the same (ignorance), which makes them mad because Somalis cause the problems and African Americans get blamed as well, because they kinda look the same...(stupid, I know). And the whites are territorial of a new ethnic group rushing their city and school in rapid numbers. Apparently the Somalis gang up and tell the white and black kids that "We are here to take over your school ,and your country"" This isn't a biased remark, as i have heard this story time and time again from parents in the STC school district.

There is just huge tension, and it really really needs to stop.

[knke0402]

Originally Posted by A Bihi

Hi My name is A Bihi. I am Somali America community leader, civic engagemet organizer organizer and activist. I also live and work in the mecca of Somali immigrants in Cedar Riverside. I really want to thank everyone who is sharing about the Somali immigrant knowledge to educate the rest of the community.

I also lead a tour in the Somali community as well as present Somali culture to Academic, law enforcement, healthcare, couty, city and non profit institutions.

Somali American community has a wonderfull story to tell. We have acheived so much in a little time within so much barries, mainly language and cultural.

Those of you who have their doubts on us or rely so much on mainstream media, write me, I'll give you a free cultural tour that might give you a different opinion, POSITIVE I HOPE

Abdirizak Bihi
abihi@hotmail.com

I agree, and I am proud of your leadership. The Somali community are great citizens for the most part, but there are large concentration of bad apples in St. Cloud and I believe its strictly due to clashing of ethnicities, which, as history proves, is natural.

I believe that many of the younger Somali population (I am speaking of St. Cloud, not Twin Cities) needs some direction and leadership, and need to become assimilated. (It seems to me that it is a barrier)

[Camden Northsider]

Originally Posted by knke0402

Well all the Somalis come to St Cloud now. St Cloud is little somalia.

Huh?? There are probably about as many Somalis in St. Cloud as there are in Willmar or Rochester, MN - not all that many. Like A Bihi above, I also have some nonprofit experience working with Somalis in Cedar-Riverside, and over the years I don't think anyone ever expressed an interest in moving to St. Cloud to me - there was an occassional person that had lived there or had family there, but this was few and far between. Maybe you're confusing Somali college students with the families that have relocated there?

Originally Posted by knke0402

Yes, there are a small population that are "hard-working, smart, community active..etc etc, whatever, whatever" but many of them lack leadership and organization. I have NEVER seen such disrespect from any group of people than Somalis in St. Cloud, as it seems they refuse to become assimilated.

To many people, the word "assimilated" is a very dirty word. It can bring to mind things from past decades like when Native American kids in the Midwest were taken from their homes as children, forced to go to boarding schools where their hair was cut, put in European dress, taught agriculture, and generally always seriously abused by their schoolmasters. The word "assimilate" by definition is an inherently ethnocentric/ racist term meaning to conform/ comply with the dominant culture. So when you use the word assimilate, it would be good to specify what you mean; do you think Somali families in St. Cloud should all be converting to Lutheranism, learning to make hotdish and/or snowmobiling/ hunting/ fishing, etc.?

Maybe "integrate" would be a better term. Someone can 'integrate' into a society while retaining their cultural beliefs, traditions, heritage, etc., which is what America's supposed to be all about (freedom of religion; life, liberty, pursuit of happiness, etc.). Integration would imply becoming productive citizens of a society, getting along and interacting with persons of other ethnic groups, and it often implies learning the dominant language. I think many Somalis have integrated amazingly in MN considering many persons' circumstances prior to coming to the US - this includes working hard to learn the language, working hard at finding and keeping jobs (and, in the Metro, many are in leadership/ highly professional positions), kids performing well in classroom environments, etc. What folks need to remember about integration, however, is that people can only integrate as well as they are allowed to. If no one's willing to someone a job, or if a 'dominant' group is unwilling to accept a person (based on their ethnicity) in school, work, or neighborhood, then how is someone going to be able to effectively 'integrate'? Considering the widely publicized racial tension in St. Cloud, it would not surprise me all that much if minority ethnic groups are not integrating well.

Originally Posted by knke0402

In St Cloud High schools, particularly TECH HIGH, there is a huge ethnic clash between Somalis, whites, and blacks. The African American population is angered at Somalis because they are often associated as the same (ignorance), which makes them mad because Somalis cause the problems and African Americans get blamed as well, because they kinda look the same...(stupid, I know). And the whites are territorial of a new ethnic group rushing their city and school in rapid numbers. Apparently the Somalis gang up and tell the white and black kids that "We are here to take over your school ,and your country"" This isn't a biased remark, as i have heard this story time and time again from parents in the STC school district.

I would think that, on average, it would be pretty hard to confuse a Somali person for an African-American or vice versa. These parents in the STC district sound pretty paranoid, or those kids are playing a joke on people's fear of Moslems. And what do the above-mentioned whites have to fear/ be territorial about in St. Cloud (or anywhere for that matter)?

Originally Posted by knke0402

There is just huge tension, and it really really needs to stop.

Good point. Based on what you've said, I completely agree.

[knke0402]

Originally Posted by Camden Northsider

Huh?? There are probably about as many Somalis in St. Cloud as there are in Willmar or Rochester, MN - not all that many. Like A Bihi above, I also have some nonprofit experience working with Somalis in Cedar-Riverside, and over the years I don't think anyone ever expressed an interest in moving to St. Cloud to me - there was an occassional person that had lived there or had family there, but this was few and far between. Maybe you're confusing Somali college students with the families that have relocated there?

I cannot say for sure in terms of numbers, but having lived in St. Cloud for 4 years, there is a giant population of Somalis. Its nothing new to the area, everyone who lives there understands and knows that there is a large population, but you're right its probably got the same as Willmar, but probably more. Another thing, is that the IDs (Driver Licenses, say the birthdays as 1-1-19xx, which i thought was odd, (my job made me check IDs)) Check out the concentration of families in St. Cloud south of 2nd Street S. and west of Cooper Avenue to CR 75, HUGE concentration. There are apartment managers that have told me that 60-70% of the renters were of Somali background. But for a City as big as St. Cloud, people should expect diversity,and St. Cloud has a HARD time doing that.. Just check out all the garbage that went on last school year at SCSU regarding swastikas....



To many people, the word "assimilated" is a very dirty word. It can bring to mind things from past decades like when Native American kids in the Midwest were taken from their homes as children, forced to go to boarding schools where their hair was cut, put in European dress, taught agriculture, and generally always seriously abused by their schoolmasters. The word "assimilate" by definition is an inherently ethnocentric/ racist term meaning to conform/ comply with the dominant culture. So when you use the word assimilate, it would be good to specify what you mean; do you think Somali families in St. Cloud should all be converting to Lutheranism, learning to make hotdish and/or snowmobiling/ hunting/ fishing, etc.?

Maybe "integrate" would be a better term. Someone can 'integrate' into a society while retaining their cultural beliefs, traditions, heritage, etc., which is what America's supposed to be all about (freedom of religion; life, liberty, pursuit of happiness, etc.). Integration would imply becoming productive citizens of a society, getting along and interacting with persons of other ethnic groups, and it often implies learning the dominant language. I think many Somalis have integrated amazingly in MN considering many persons' circumstances prior to coming to the US - this includes working hard to learn the language, working hard at finding and keeping jobs (and, in the Metro, many are in leadership/ highly professional positions), kids performing well in classroom environments, etc. What folks need to remember about integration, however, is that people can only integrate as well as they are allowed to. If no one's willing to give them a job, if a 'dominant' group is unwilling to accept them in school, work, or neighborhood, then how is someone going to be able to effectively 'integrate'? Considering the widely publicized racial tension in St. Cloud, it would not surprise me all that much if minority ethnic groups are not integrating well.

I can see where you are coming from, and maybe integrate is a better term. Either way, I DONT mean it in ways of being accustom to snowmobiles and that, I just mean, learn the language and everyday things that doesnt hinder other peoples lives... I worked at a gas station, and a guy ruined his car because he put engine coolant were the oils goes...and I had another fellow try to pump air in his tires with a tire gauge and not the actual air hose. Simple things like that. Things that are everyday social norms, they don't seem to understand.. And yes, that stuff comes with time.

You're exactly right with integration. People can only integrate as much as people let them. - Perfect statement.


I would think that, on average, it would be pretty hard to confuse a Somali person for an African-American or vice versa. These parents in the STC district sound pretty paranoid, or those kids are playing a joke on people's fear of Moslems. And what do whites have to fear/ be territorial about in St. Cloud (or anywhere for that matter)?

I would think so too, but remember there are many, many people that are ignorant and judge basically on what tone of color your skin is... The parents in STC seem very paranoid, and thats the entire problem with St. Cloud, its just not diverse at all, and many people have a hard time accepting changes. Maybe its the stubborn strong German heritage, or that forever it was a smaller, isolated farming community with high white populations, and all of a sudden its grow into a multicultural regional metropolitan hub, and is , believe it or not starting to be considered a suburb of Minneapolis, and people are having a hard time accepting an influx of different nationalities and ethnic groups.



Good point. Based on what you've said, I completely agree.

Thank You.

[knke0402]

Ok so this message board is a lot different from the ones I am used to. I butchered that last one.

[tvdxer]

On a lighter note, has anybody tried Somali food? I had beef suqqar at a Somali restaurant (Safari) on Nicollet and it was very good.

[JMadison]

Originally Posted by knke0402

Well all the Somalis come to St Cloud now. St Cloud is little somalia

Yes, there are a small population that are "hard-working, smart, community active..etc etc, whatever, whatever" but many of them lack leadership and organization. I have NEVER seen such disrespect from any group of people than Somalis in St. Cloud, as it seems they refuse to become assimilated.

In St Cloud High schools, particularly TECH HIGH, there is a huge ethnic clash between Somalis, whites, and blacks. The African American population is angered at Somalis because they are often associated as the same (ignorance), which makes them mad because Somalis cause the problems and African Americans get blamed as well, because they kinda look the same...(stupid, I know). And the whites are territorial of a new ethnic group rushing their city and school in rapid numbers. Apparently the Somalis gang up and tell the white and black kids that "We are here to take over your school ,and your country"" This isn't a biased remark, as i have heard this story time and time again from parents in the STC school district.

There is just huge tension, and it really really needs to stop.

Yes it does need to stop. Perhaps Somalia needs to get fixed, rather than relocating it to Minnesota? What are we going to do? Let the bad elements in all countries take over? Seems to me the root of the problem needs to be fixed right where it's at.

[JMadison]

Originally Posted by TheseGoTo11

It seems many Somalis came to mpls because they were dissatisfied with Sweden, and followed the same path as Scandinavian immigrants 100 yrs ago?

Is this true?

The Somalis are coming to Minn/St Paul because the U.S. Gov't put a resettlement center there.

Guess someone saw that Minn. was "too white" and decided to "fix" it.

Beyond that, HR at USBank has stated to me that they have a policy to try and hire more Africans direct from Africa. As if there aren't enough unemployed U.S. Citizens? Saw this at IBM to. "People of Color in Engineering" where trying every possible method of hiring Ethopians in, while U.S. workers who'd been doing the jobs for years as contractors with lesser benefits were being passed over for those direct hire positions.

Don't know why, but our leadership is again selling us out.